LLM or JD in Yale/Havard/Stanford

Paying for the school is the harder.

I would rather go to an MBA program in the States

If I had a Law degree from Trinity College Dublin, would i have a good chance of getting into either the JD or LLM programmes at any of the law schools mantioned above?

If I wanted to practice law in New York City, would an LLM be fairly useless to me if i didnt get a JD??

I know you dont need one to work in New York, but recruitment wise....

or is the LLM from those mentioned above good enough to get a job?
thanks

PS: Would i need someone rich backing me up to get a student loan in the US?

Would you have a good chance? Unless you are academically exceptional, probably not. The people who get onto the JD programme for those 3 law schools tend to be genuinely exceptional students who average astronomical GPA's and LSAT scores.

For instance, the highest GPA score you can normally get in colleges over there is 4.0, and the median score for a Yale law student was about 3.9, which is phenomenally high. Similarly the median LSAT score for a Yale law student was 173 out of 180, which is again an extremely high score (preparing for the LSAT test itself will take months of hard work by the way, it's pretty savage!).

I'm not sure how to translate the GPA scores into UK or Irish degree results, but the bottom line is that firstly you really do need to be an exceptional applicant to even get a look in at these kind of places; secondly the application process is long, gruelling and quite expensive (I think you have to pay a fairly hefty fee just to apply, as well as fees to take the LSAT and enormous fees to take a course that teaches the LSAT, which a lot of people do). If you're only interested in going to the very best law schools, but your academics aren't genuinely world-beating, I don't think it's worth it personally. But it's up to you.

This, and JP's post, are the only sense that I've seen on this thread.

Six percent of applicants to Yale LS get in. That is significantly lower than Oxbridge and LSE, and the applicant pool is very strong. You also have to already have a degree, very strong undergraduate grades, and an exceptionally high LSAT (which many people find very difficult, though neither I nor a friend of mine thought it was obscenely hard--it is tougher than the LNAT by a substantial margin). You also need excellent references, and strong extracurricular activities on the level of club presidencies and officer positions. The average entrant at HSY is well above wet-behind-the-ears graduate age--I think it's about 26 or 27. The fee to apply is about $70 for each LS. The LSAT costs $125, give or take, plus whatever you spend to get to the exam and on study materials. I used books, but didn't take a course. I studied some (but not incredibly intensively) and scored 168, which is 96th percentile. That score would be good enough for some of the top 14, but not for HSY. If you want to know if you have a shot, I suggest you take the free practise LSAT. If you do reasonably well (160+ or 165+ on a cold test), then you might consider applying to US law schools assuming all the other imponderables. If you go to HSY you have a very good chance of getting a job. The visa thing is an issue, though.

I disagree with the poster above who said not to go into debt to go to LS--if you can go to HSY, the debt is a good bargain. If you work in public or low-fee work, you have smaller repayments and might eventually have the debt forgiven. If you go into big law, the money is so good the debt isn't a big deal.

If you can't go to the top 14, though, you really need to think carefully about whether it's worth the debt. And I'm not sure how much money international students can get in loan--federal loans are very good for law school, but you have to be a US citizen or permanent resident.

Uhhhhmmm, the median averages certainly do not reflect the many students that get into HYS with low 160s and 3.0 GPAs. I know quite a few individuals who went to Harvard, one with a 3.2/160 stat.

Uhhhhmmm, the median averages certainly do not reflect the many students that get into HYS with low 160s and 3.0 GPAs. I know quite a few individuals who went to Harvard, one with a 3.2/160 stat.

x

Don't listen to the above, folks. As someone who works in BIGLAW, I can clearly tell you the money is not "so good the debt isn't a big deal". If the money was so good why are there so many lawyers taking 5 to 10 years to pay off their debt? Clearly you have not a clue what you speak on and have never worked in or around BIGLAW associates to know what is actually the deal.

Like I said, if you want to take out over 150k in loans then go right ahead. Just know that international student or US citizen the interest accrues even when you're in law school and Sallie Mae will come after your behind.

Here are the 25th and 75th percentiles for Harvard's JD class of 2012.

GPA 75th / 25th percentiles: 3.96 / 3.76
LSAT 75th / 25th percentiles: 176 / 171

Obviously with a total enrollment of 559 people there will obviously be some people with the sort of stats you talk about. Nevertheless, they are few and far between and will in all likelihood have fantastic extra-curriculars. To say that "many" students have low 160s LSATs and 3.0 GPAs is simply misleading as the percentiles illustrate.

Do not quote meaningless numbers here; they mislead people.

I never said it wouldn't take years to pay it off, but the burden is manageable. Everyone I know in law says if you can go to HYS, it's worth the debt.

You are, of course, right about the downsizing of the legal market and lowering salaries. Anyone considering law school needs to look at the fact carefully. I'm not sure the picture is as bleak as you say. (Except for grads/LSAT scores--very few people with that kind of score/GPA combination could get anywhere in the top 14, let alone HSY, without some very strong soft factors.)

x

LOL. If you solely rely on percentiles and medians to garner the type of students attending HYS then I don't know what else to tell you. It's not always just about this median score or that median GPA and thinking you would not get in because you don't fall within the school's median. And yes, MANY do get in with low 160s and 3.0s. Saying the MAJORITY do would in fact be misleading.

You aren't a big law associate either. I'm leaving it at that now. This is a waste of everyone's time.

Nor did I say anywhere that grades were the only relevant factor. Law School Numbers clearly reflects that fact. For the 2008-2009 cycle people with 178 LSAT 3.88 GPA failed to gain admission. There are numerous people with similar scores who were rejected as well. Obviously the scores are self-reported and that brings with it limitations. Either way, the general trends over at LSN illustrates that grades alone are insufficient to gain admission. Soft factors play a huge role as well.

I am simply at a loss for why you think that we are suggesting grades are the only relevant factor for admission to HYS. I believe we were simply putting your anecdotal evidence relating to Harvard in its proper context which is the hard data regarding admissions available on Harvard's own website.

I hope that clarifies matters.