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not1
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#21
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#21
(Original post by elpaw)
and one of the most ludicrous arguments is the watchmaker. i can't believe people fall for that crap.
i havent heard that one, give me a precis
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caz
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Jonatan)
Was there a point or a meaning in what you just said? If so, I must have missed it.
You said "him/her" and rambled on about God not being able to be proved existing, when in reality, existence exists. This we all know, and God, also referred to as Dharma in Bhuddist philosophy, as the total, the whole, or existence itself. The being. Me, you. Being

Proving God exists to feel better would be like denying you exist. I'm sorry if you fail to consider other people's philosophy, but I don't consider the traditional Biblical interpretations by the Catholic or Protestant churches to be very relevant to God as a historical truth...
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elpaw
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#23
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#23
(Original post by edders)
i havent heard that one, give me a precis
is that a sarcastic one?
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not1
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#24
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#24
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
edders, are you being drawn in to a discussion about god after all??!
heh on this thread maybe, i just wanted to keep my academia thread on topic
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not1
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#25
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#25
(Original post by elpaw)
is that a sarcastic one?
i dont use the smiley for sarcastic purposes, so no. i use :rolleyes: when i need to make sarcasm obvious.
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caz
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#26
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#26
(Original post by elpaw)
and one of the most ludicrous arguments is the watchmaker. i can't believe people fall for that crap.
I agree. People develop their own watchguard in their mind, and this is often the cause of various personality disorders. All of which protected by the traditional religious teachings, which teach that all the rules it gives you are the words of God, which people repeat in their head as if this is God himself, judging them...when in reality, it is merely their self. God does not judge...only people judge, and this hides potential. I believe
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GH
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#27
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#27
(Original post by edders)
i havent heard that one, give me a precis
Basically argument from design. i.e. if someone picks up a watch on the beach, you would know that it was designed by a "maker" as it has brass gears, and a transparent face for the time to be looked at etc. and not just created from the stone etc.

And thus did Thomas Paley conclude that therefore because we are designed perfectly, as in eyes for seeing etc. we must have had a maker.
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curryADD
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#28
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#28
(Original post by 2776)
Basically argument from design. i.e. if someone picks up a watch on the beach, you would know that it was designed by a "maker" as it has brass gears, and a transparent face for the time to be looked at etc. and not just created from the stone etc.

And thus did Thomas Paley conclude that therefore because we are designed perfectly, as in eyes for seeing etc. we must have had a maker.
huh.... are you SURE....
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Jonatan
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#29
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#29
(Original post by caz)
You said "him/her" and rambled on about God not being able to be proved existing, when in reality, existence exists. This we all know, and God, also referred to as Dharma in Bhuddist philosophy, as the total, the whole, or existence itself. The being. Me, you. Being

Proving God exists to feel better would be like denying you exist. I'm sorry if you fail to consider other people's philosophy, but I don't consider the traditional Biblical interpretations by the Catholic or Protestant churches to be very relevant to God as a historical truth...
Does the concept of solipsism sound familiar to you? Existance is far from obvious, except for teh existance of ME! Of course, to you , it is probably YOUR existance that is obvious, whereas MY existance is more doubtable. It is a little bit weird how one can imagine what the world would be lik without oneself seen from that perspective...
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caz
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Jonatan)
Does the concept of solipsism sound familiar to you? Existance is far from obvious, except for teh existance of ME! Of course, to you , it is probably YOUR existance that is obvious, whereas MY existance is more doubtable. It is a little bit weird how one can imagine what the world would be lik without oneself seen from that perspective...
existence does not need company, so i dont know what you're getting at
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not1
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#31
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#31
(Original post by 2776)
Basically argument from design...
ah yeah, i know the one. seems a bit naff to me.
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Jonatan
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#32
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#32
(Original post by caz)
existence does not need company, so i dont know what you're getting at
Well, if I were to use words without presuming readers would understand which defenition I was reffering to I would have to define every concept I ever write about. Then I would have to define the defenitions etc etc. Therefore, I just was sleezy enough to post the message and let those people who wanted to discuss the same defenition as I did to answer. Of course, if one uses a different defenition, the discussion becomes meaningless as it no longer applies to the topic.
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elpaw
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#33
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#33
(Original post by curryADD)
huh.... are you SURE....
exactly. that's why it's ludicrous.
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NeuroticSurgeon
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#34
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#34
The issue of God. Interesting.

Firstly, I agree that the arguments for the existence of God are extremely fallible. Secondly, I believe in God. I'll give you my definition of God:

There is a Great Spirit; Brahman, and every living organism is a part of this Great Spirit. My personal view of the Great Spirit is panentheistic in the belief that that which is made of nature and is preserved by nature is a part of it. Therefore the Great Spirit is immanent, for nature cannot not exist without it. The Great Spirit is necessary – there is no possibility of it not existing.

The Universal Soul may be immanent, but it is also immutable in the true sense of the word. So, although nature appears ever changing and in constant flux, and so does the universe as the parts of the whole, this does not suggest that the whole itself is ever changing and in constant flux. Therefore, although the universe is in constant flux and changing shape every milli-second, the universe is only a part of the Great Spirit. The Great Spirit is thus transcendent, for there are other parts of it that are not part of our universe and yet it is also immanent, for much of it is present in nature.

Nature is crucial to our perception and view of Brahman. Effectively, everything that we can experience is natural, because if it were not, it would not exist. Even man-made things are intrinsically natural, for man (who is natural), with the use of natural resources created that which is man made. Nature is the mirror with which humanity can create reflections and see a reflection of good and evil.


That's my definition of God (long), but I must emphasise that most people will acknowledge that God is a matter of faith rather than something that can be "proved". The "other" two 'arguments' - the Argument from the Moral and the Experience perspective recognise that it is indeed a matter of faith. It is true that people believe in God because they want to, but looking at it from an objective view, that makes no difference to the "proof" for the existence of God. Our moral concepts, our religious beliefs can be seriously called into question, but the existence of God in itself cannot from that point.

Perhaps we should ask ourselves, "Where did this idea of God come from?". I find it somewhat simplistic to say "Our concept of God is the God of the Gaps" and that is that. Remember, that if God really was a God of the Gaps, He would be an impersonal God, that was just "up there" and created us. But over time, this God has a personality, it is a personal God and yet still transcendent. Another thing that suggests that it is not all that simple is that many cultures, untouched by each other, have all had some sort of concept of religion and of God. So I do think it's a lot more complicated than just saying God is there because people wanted him to be there. Marx, Nietzsche and Freud's suggestions for the existence of God are all fascinating, but I find them all a little simplistic and unsatisfactory. I suppose it's better than going the Bertrand Russell way and just calling everything a "brute fact".
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not1
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Jonatan)
Well, if I were to use words without presuming readers would understand which defenition I was reffering to I would have to define every concept I ever write about. Then I would have to define the defenitions etc etc. Therefore, I just was sleezy enough to post the message and let those people who wanted to discuss the same defenition as I did to answer. Of course, if one uses a different defenition, the discussion becomes meaningless as it no longer applies to the topic.
uhuh
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NeuroticSurgeon
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#36
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#36
And to 2776 - it's not Thomas Paley - it's William Paley . Just trivia but felt you should know anyway.
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GH
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#37
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#37
(Original post by NeuroticSurgeon)
And to 2776 - it's not Thomas Paley - it's William Paley . Just trivia but felt you should know anyway.
Yes, thats the name! I was wondering who would spot my mistake

My GCSE knowledge is seeping faster than I thought...
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curryADD
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#38
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#38
(Original post by 2776)
Yes, thats the name! I was wondering who would spot my mistake

My GCSE knowledge is seeping faster than I thought...
what grdaea do you take GSCE's in....?
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GH
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#39
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#39
(Original post by curryADD)
what grdaea do you take GSCE's in....?
I got an A*, but still I am kicking myself, should have known that...
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curryADD
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#40
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#40
(Original post by 2776)
I got an A*, but still I am kicking myself, should have known that...
no how old are you when you take GSCE's?
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