reducing intake from private schools

*gets excited* thanks.

shall work on elaborating that official info later. :biggrin:

Reply 43

H&E

The volume of access schemes Oxford has is absolutely staggering. I think most people just have no idea how much goes on, how much time people invest, both professionals and student volunteers, how hard people work, and how much money is spent (upwards of £10m a year!).

For example, I applied for the Sutton Trust Summer School this year. I was virtually certain I'd be taken on, partly coz I had a fair bit of experience of access work, but mostly because I expected them to be struggling to fill all their places. A few weeks later I got an email saying "sorry, but we had eight (!) applicants per place". A huge number of Oxford students try to get involved and help with widening access.

Reply 44

Helenia

20

H&E

For example, I applied for the Sutton Trust Summer School this year. I was virtually certain I'd be taken on, partly coz I had a fair bit of experience of access work, but mostly because I expected them to be struggling to fill all their places. A few weeks later I got an email saying "sorry, but we had eight (!) applicants per place". A huge number of Oxford students try to get involved and help with widening access.

Including, as you can see, an awful lot of private school students! :wink:

They're just as keen on getting able state schoolers to apply so it's really unfair that future private school applicants will be disadvantaged by the government trying to meet silly targets.

Reply 45

Helenia

Including, as you can see, an awful lot of private school students! :wink:

interesting point here - a friend of mine who helped on an Easter Summer School went to a public school. i imagine there was similar competition to help out on this one, & the OUCA professionals recruiting evidently judged him to be one of the most suitable UGs...

but a faculty member involved in the programme upon finding out some of the student helpers went to independent schools ranted about how "inappropriate" it was that they should be helping out.

right or wrong? :rolleyes:

Reply 46

H&E

Wrong, and moronic. Widening access is about getting more people to apply. It's absolutely nothing to do with independent schools.

Reply 47

although a criterion for all the summer school school-children (sounds patronising, but if i put student it's confusable with UG student!) applications i've seen is that they attend a state school...

Reply 48

Narcissus

ramroff

will they spot you when you apply and then use it against you? :eek:

The admissions dudes can only go on what they've seen :wink:

Reply 49

~~hannah~~

4

The thing about reducing the private school intake to 25% is that they seem to forget that alot of private schools you have to take a very difficult entrance exam to get in to. so the students are going to be very intelligent (and lucky that their family could afford a private school education). so its unfair to discrimate against them.

I was wondering I went to a private school until I finished GCSEs, then I've been at a state 6th form college, would Oxford count me as state in their statistics (if i get the grades) coz if they do then surely this is what everyones going to do to find a loophole in the system.

Also if all good unis start taking a quota number of private schools pupils then doesnt it really defeat the object of going private to begin with, namely, to get good grades and go to a good uni?

x x x

Reply 50

roff

2

Narcissus

The admissions dudes can only go on what they've seen :wink:

surely you jest

I made an embarrasing blunder:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138804

:redface:

Reply 51

Trevor 12345

H&E

Have you actually read the article? It makes no reference to any difference in treatment regarding offers. It's just about not intimidating candidates; and the proposals discussed are already used by many dons, who'll start interviews with a warm-up question.

I have indeed read the article, and have read the responses by others; perhaps you have not. I refer to a previous post with regards to offers made

H&E

Your idea, btw, is unworkable. If A-levels were challenging, it'd be fair enough. However, in reality, they're not. Exceptional circumstances aside (illness, marking fook up, absence of teachers), if you cannot got an A at A-level then you are simply not at the level required at Oxford for that subject.

Far from being unworkable, in my time at college it was not uncommon to receive 2E offers from Oxbridge. Your comment about not having the required level by missing an A-grade is quite simply not the case. I dare say that you have never ventured into a struggling school where students often have to battle for any form of success. On the other other hand I have taught in a wide range of schools, state and private, over the last 2 decades. Currently I work in a succesful private establishment with a relatively high proportion of potential Oxbridge candidates.

H&E

For STEP exams, which are very challenging indeed, some colleges already put your idea into place, and will give students from very strong schools offers like S,1, while students with less advantages will get 1,1, or maybe even 1,2 offers. (According to hometerror, anyway). Oxbridge really aren't that stupid with regards to admissions, believe it or not, they just have to think through how to put ideas into practice, rather than just throwing them in the air with no regard to reality.

i) with regards to step exams; you are now talking about a very small percentage of applicants. I have prepared students for STEP for many years now.
ii) Reading back through my original post, do take note of my comments on interview/selection

m

Reply 52

*River

15

In a perfect world, we wouldn't even have private schools, but I think we've established the misguided political policies of New Labour are beginning to falter. Private schools exist because many parents (including my own) feel that the best investment they can make for their children is in their education. Things like overcomign bad schooling should be taken into account, but I don't see how quotas are going to get anybody anywhere particularly fast! At the end of the day, if parents have no education and they've got on OK in life, it can't be expected for every one of them to encourage their children to work hard, get good grades and go to university.

Reply 53

H&E

Mrm.

Far from being unworkable, in my time at college it was not uncommon to receive 2E offers from Oxbridge. Your comment about not having the required level by missing an A-grade is quite simply not the case. I dare say that you have never ventured into a struggling school where students often have to battle for any form of success. On the other other hand I have taught in a wide range of schools, state and private, over the last 2 decades. Currently I work in a succesful private establishment with a relatively high proportion of potential Oxbridge candidates.

EE offers are meant as unconditional offers, as you're well aware....

And no, I've not ventured into any spectcularly unsuccessful school. But, firstly, friends of mine have, including one who was taught in a class where teachers were pleased if students passed their AS-level (can't recall what subject), and didn't much care about B's or A's. She got an A, quite easily IIRC.

So that's one thing. If you are good, you should get an A. The people I've met at Oxford from poor schools managed it. This may sound a bit obvious, but the fact is that it seems people of the Oxbridge standard, by and large, will get their A's despite poor teaching. (None of these people, as it happens, got 1sts in their first year exams, so these are not Newtons-in-waiting. They're just bright, determined, hard working and resourceful, as should be expected of Oxbridge students).

Now of course, some people will suffer from conditions so bad that getting an A really is a huge challenge. Those are a huge minority, though, and I don't think any widespread policy should be based upon them (tutors can already make exceptions for exceptional circumstances). I'd still have huge concerns about admitting someone with anything below an A in a relevant subject. It's hard enough to keep up with the work as it is, if you're catching up on stuff everyone else did at school things will become very hard, very quickly.

Reply 54

kellywood_5

Elles

interesting point here - a friend of mine who helped on an Easter Summer School went to a public school. i imagine there was similar competition to help out on this one, & the OUCA professionals recruiting evidently judged him to be one of the most suitable UGs...

but a faculty member involved in the programme upon finding out some of the student helpers went to independent schools ranted about how "inappropriate" it was that they should be helping out.

right or wrong? :rolleyes:

I have to say here that the whole point of these access initiatives is to prove to state school students that they have just as much chance of getting a place as those from private schools, so surely going to a summer school with lots of helpers from independent schools kind of defeats the object and confirms their original thoughts that you have a better chance of getting in if you go to a private school? I went to one of those conferences myself and one of the first questions someone asked the girl giving the talk was 'are you from a state school?' She was, but I'm pretty sure if she'd said no, it would have made a difference.

Reply 55