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    This could quite properly go into religion or politics. The affair seems to be a particularly fetid mixture of the two. Sharon may have the reputation of a ferocious right-winger (and the past history to back up that reputation) but here he seems to be playing the pragmatist to the settler's extremism.

    So, what on earth do people make of the Gaza pullout? As a Jew listening to the Jewish settlers I feel like cracking my head against the nearest wall. "They are all terrorists", "This is our land, promised by God". An avalanche of the inevitable cliches, every bit as vitriolic and demented as the rhetoric of the mad clerics who claim that all Jews must be driven into the sea, by the will of Allah.

    'Tis a subject that fascinates and depresses me. Once again - what do people think?
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    Someone ****ed up, yeah we want settlements in Gaza.............. err actually no we don't.
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    I think the pull out of Israel citizens from Gaza settlements is a good start. Hopefully it will lead to a reduction to the amount of attacks from Palestine bombers and further peaceful acts between the two peoples.
    IMO Israel has no right to be in Gaza in the first place. No one can deny Israels right to exist now they have developed/invested into the country/land so greatly but I defiantly think Israel should make major concessions to the Palestine’s as it took their land illegally in the first place.
    It doesn't stop me feeling sorry for the Israel citizens living in the evicted settlements, to lose your home must be heart braking. Some may call it justice but it just seems cruel, do they even get compensation from their government?
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    I think it is a good start. Gaza can be a good experiment region to see how Palestinian territories can do without Israeli settlements of militiary presence.
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    The Gaza pullout IMO is the right thing to do. It's surprising, coming from Sharon. You may have noticed that the real hard liner Netanyahu resigned from his position of (whatever) to show his distain for the pullout.
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    My views have changed throughout. When it was first suggested, I didn't see a problem. Hamas and similar terrorist groups would stop attacking in exchange for Gaza. Sounds good to me. Yet now the withdrawal is taking place, Hamas and the other groups say they are not going to stop attacking Israelis. It seems like to me, that only one side is giving their part of the deal. Israelis have to move out of their homes, where they've lived all their lives to give to the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are not giving anything in return. I find it saddening and sickening that Palestinian kids as young as 5 are burning Israeli flags at the same time as Israeli kids their age are leaving their homes for them. Israeli settlers are praying and crying, even the soldiers are crying, yet the Palestinians are continuing with their old ways, burning flags and brainwashing kids into hating Israelis and to be suicide bombers.

    What use is withdrawing from the land if the attacks are going to continue? Is the land just an excuse to attack Israel? Part of me thinks it is, but the other part of me hopes it isn't.

    Let's just hope that the settlers can continue dealing with this peacefully as seen by the news, and that this procedure can be done with as little violence as possible.

    Shalom.
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    (Original post by fivebyfive)
    Some may call it justice but it just seems cruel, do they even get compensation from their government?
    They do get compensation, but money can't compensate the memories and the happy lives they had in their old homes. They were living in a dangerous place, being subjected to mortars, but they were happy there. It is so depressing seeing the army having to hand papers to them and knock on each and every door. Some of them ignore it and the papers have to go underneath but some shake the soldier's hand; so very diverse.
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    Two points:

    1) On the 'happy lives' point; many of the rabid ' God says it's ours' extremists are in fact American immigrants. Not everyone in the territories was born in Israel, let alone the occupied land.

    2) Of course Hamas and related militant groups are unlikely to stop attacking Israel. Take away the intifada and you effectively remove their reason for existence along with much of their authority. Take the guns and explosives away and you have a group of directionless individuals with not much to do.
    Extremism swings both ways after all. Just as some Israelis feel that the withdrawal is a betrayal so some Palestinians feel that all the land belongs to them. If it works the two state solution can hopefully sap support from such groups. A well-fed man with employment and a purpose can be a lot more amenable than one who feels he is living with a boot on his throat.
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    (Original post by gemgems89)
    They do get compensation, but money can't compensate the memories and the happy lives they had in their old homes. They were living in a dangerous place, being subjected to mortars, but they were happy there. It is so depressing seeing the army having to hand papers to them and knock on each and every door. Some of them ignore it and the papers have to go underneath but some shake the soldier's hand; so very diverse.
    Oh please. Those settlers moved into Palestinian land, because they think they can just take any d**n thing they want. Well I have news for some of those settlers. If they did what they do in any other part of the world, they would be deported or jailed. Give me a break!!
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    (Original post by The Black Rider)
    Two points:

    1) On the 'happy lives' point; many of the rabid ' God says it's ours' extremists are in fact American immigrants. Not everyone in the territories was born in Israel, let alone the occupied land.
    You are absolutely right. They think they can take anything they want. I am tired of this idea both sides have that they can take everything they want. Israelis need to stop being land theives, and the Palestinians need to learn to stop murdering Jews to drive them out of their homes. This just gets me angrier and angrier.
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    (Original post by gemgems89)
    They do get compensation, but money can't compensate the memories and the happy lives they had in their old homes. They were living in a dangerous place, being subjected to mortars, but they were happy there. It is so depressing seeing the army having to hand papers to them and knock on each and every door. Some of them ignore it and the papers have to go underneath but some shake the soldier's hand; so very diverse.
    At least thats something. Its a difficult one but i think in the long term its in the good for all.
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    It is an absolute joke, ofcourse the Gaza withdrawal should not continue. Ok its accepted that Israel 'took' the land during the 1967 war, however the state of Israel has only been in excistance for just under 60 years. So this conflict with palestien was 20 years after the Israeli state was created following WWII. So the arguement is either 1) this is palestieian land or 2) its a jesture of good faith towards the musilms next door.

    Both are a joke. firstly what nation throughout the world has ever settled with what they have. probly all countires have that lil bit extra land somewhere. Uk having atleast the fawklands, france has its island in the couth atlantic and the states simply bought Alaska off the russians. so this land is just it is like no other state bit of extra terriory that has justly been taken from another.
    Secondly wtf is going on, no the terrorists should not be appeased, they should be killed for the thousnads of deaths and casulties that have resulted from their actions.

    The IDF should be less worried about their countrymen and stay in their sniper towers and slot every single muslim who looks slightly suspect until the
    day that they have all gone. Leaving the middle east free from this constant terror.
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    I think your policy for the Middle East lacks clarity. The solution is unlikely to involve taking pot shots at the local population on a whim.

    Shooting the 'suspect Muslim' has already been road-tested right here in Blighty. It turned out he was Brazilian.
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    (Original post by The Black Rider)
    Shooting the 'suspect Muslim' has already been road-tested right here in Blighty. It turned out he was Brazilian.
    Following what had happened in London only days before i find it 100% just and required by acting first because if only one get through we all know full well what happens.
    And lets remember that was the first time the UK had expirenced suicide bombers. Remember Israelis have had those attacks day in day out for years.
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    I seem to remember an old jewish proverb along the lines of "If someone kills your wife/child you will never see them again, but if someone steals your land then at least it will always be there so you can go back and visit it."

    I personally think Sharon's motive is more likely to be financial in terms of cost per settler to protect them, appeasement to the United States, where the Israeli's are a huge benefactor of American military aid and a PR show peice for the world court of opinion. I don't think the plight of the average palestinian in the occupied lands, is at the foremost of his concerns.
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    (Original post by gemgems89)
    My views have changed throughout. When it was first suggested, I didn't see a problem. Hamas and similar terrorist groups would stop attacking in exchange for Gaza. Sounds good to me. Yet now the withdrawal is taking place, Hamas and the other groups say they are not going to stop attacking Israelis. It seems like to me, that only one side is giving their part of the deal. Israelis have to move out of their homes, where they've lived all their lives to give to the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are not giving anything in return. I find it saddening and sickening that Palestinian kids as young as 5 are burning Israeli flags at the same time as Israeli kids their age are leaving their homes for them. Israeli settlers are praying and crying, even the soldiers are crying, yet the Palestinians are continuing with their old ways, burning flags and brainwashing kids into hating Israelis and to be suicide bombers.

    What use is withdrawing from the land if the attacks are going to continue? Is the land just an excuse to attack Israel? Part of me thinks it is, but the other part of me hopes it isn't.

    Let's just hope that the settlers can continue dealing with this peacefully as seen by the news, and that this procedure can be done with as little violence as possible.

    Shalom.
    Now i can't stand the terror groups like hamas - i'll say that from the outset so i don't get vienna or someone demanding i add it in.

    Can you not see that this is righting a wrong. The land that these people are living on belonged to people before they seized it. In several of the larger settlements they are actually founded on old palestinian villages. Now at first when it was announced the siraelis would tear up houses when they go i thought it a horrid idea, but now i think its spot on. Let the palestinians have their land back and do what they will. Let them reclaim properties for which many have deeds. (you'll note there are loads of PA about to stop hamas seizing all the property when the siraelis leave and then handing it out in the illusion of charity)

    But i do find it somewhat concerning that israeli settlers are hiring massive diggers to excavate out the olive groves. These olive groves are in many cases hundreds of years old - certainly predating the settlers. They are being removed back to their new settlements in israel.
    Now i know they have tended these trees in many cases for near 40 years, but they belonged to others for many generations before that. Olive trees to me strike a cord simply because they take so many years to bear fruit, and last often thousands of years, yet have been destroyed in many areas by IDF and sewttlers alike for fear (possibly justified) of militas using them as camo.
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    (Original post by gemgems89)
    They do get compensation, but money can't compensate the memories and the happy lives they had in their old homes. They were living in a dangerous place, being subjected to mortars, but they were happy there. It is so depressing seeing the army having to hand papers to them and knock on each and every door. Some of them ignore it and the papers have to go underneath but some shake the soldier's hand; so very diverse.
    how much compensation did the palestinian civilians get when the land was originally seized and settled upon in 1967 (under the direction of sharon oddly enough)
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    (Original post by MyHappyEnding)
    It is an absolute joke, ofcourse the Gaza withdrawal should not continue. Ok its accepted that Israel 'took' the land during the 1967 war, however the state of Israel has only been in excistance for just under 60 years. So this conflict with palestien was 20 years after the Israeli state was created following WWII. So the arguement is either 1) this is palestieian land or 2) its a jesture of good faith towards the musilms next door.

    Both are a joke. firstly what nation throughout the world has ever settled with what they have. probly all countires have that lil bit extra land somewhere. Uk having atleast the fawklands, france has its island in the couth atlantic and the states simply bought Alaska off the russians. so this land is just it is like no other state bit of extra terriory that has justly been taken from another.
    Secondly wtf is going on, no the terrorists should not be appeased, they should be killed for the thousnads of deaths and casulties that have resulted from their actions.

    The IDF should be less worried about their countrymen and stay in their sniper towers and slot every single muslim who looks slightly suspect until the
    day that they have all gone. Leaving the middle east free from this constant terror.
    You can't rule something out just because of terrorists - you simply don't do it BECAUSE of them. There are a whole lot of non-violent people both in and out of palestine who think that the settlers should remove themselves and return the lands.You can't ignore that view simply because some violent barstads express their similar sentiment in a truly abhorrent manner
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    Its difficult and heartbreaking for some, seeing the last of their homes and living somewhere else, but in the end this could provide a real opportunity for Palestinian and Israeli to live peacefully beside one another, with two states and the end to suicide bombings, wars and such that the area has seen so much of during the last 50 years.
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    (Original post by Lord Waddell)
    but in the end this could provide a real opportunity for Palestinian and Israeli to live peacefully beside one another, with two states and the end to suicide bombings, .
    Honest i would agree with you if this is what i thought was achievable but it wont it truely wont, militants will not stop until every single American Britain and Israeli are dead. If you give a mouse a cookie, there gonna want a glass of milk. it will never end. unfortunatly we just have to ride it out, yes its bloody but its the only way. atleast thats my view
 
 
 
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