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    (Original post by kikzen)
    Traps - so what about other animals or hell, people that could get caught in them?
    Bait - again, what about the other animals, and if it's close enough to water it could affect a much wider area
    Shooting them outright - well, what about the foxes that dont actually die. they just get hit and bleed to death.

    these are all more humane, eh?
    Yes.

    I'm not talking about bear-trap style traps. Cages would be decidedly more sensible.

    Baits are advanced enough to appeal only to foxes.

    I believe the physical pain endured by bleeding to death is significantly less than the effect of being run to the point of exhaustion with the stress of having a pack of dogs on your tail.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    I agree with that I also know people who are farmers and are against the hunt but have had their land used without permission. It does create damage.

    As for the enjoyment factor, you are saying that it is fine to watch an animal suffer because it is for enjoyment. If I took your pet and smashed its head up against a wall would that be ok because I enjoyed it. I hardly think so, it is illegal I could face a prison sentence and would probably be banned from keeping animals ever again. Why is that any different?
    because the foxes are already doing harm.....killing livestock and so forth, and if there is a population problem, let it be done unhumanely if its tradition.....
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    (Original post by Alec)

    Fox hunting is not a country tradition, it is the preserve of the upper middle and upper classes (the type who own Range Rovers but never go off road).

    I think you'll find a majority of farmers view hunts as a nuisance when they come on to their land. Ten or so galloping horses can cause significant damage.

    I have a friend whose father is a farmer, and despite not agreeing for hunts to come on to this land, they have in the past.
    Any hunt I have been involved with have only hunted on land with the owners permission, the followers have been very good in being careful of the crops, shutting gates etc.

    Over here horses in general are not just an activity for the middle/upper classes so hunting is no more of a snobbish sport, but I do get the impression that in England it is more like that.

    As for your last comment I refer you again to my information about farmers supporting the hunts - most recognise the bigger problem if hunting did not occur. Why not read some Horse and Hound magazines - I read the stuff in the press from the 'antis' so why not try and get a balanced feed of the arguements.

    I do agree that hunting is not without fault, but until I see a viable alternative I can do nothing but pledge my full support to it.
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    (Original post by Sazzle)
    And what about the chickens, sheep and children's pets THEY kill. Until a more humane AND effective method is offered hunting is the best way.
    And like I said before, the fox even has a chance to escape. Not much chance against a bullet.
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    The RSPCA survey showed that the population of foxes was not significantly higher after a 10 month foxhunting ban, this indicates that foxhunting does not significantly lower the fox population. In which case it is simply sport and animal cruelty which should be made illegal. If tests in Australia show that the contraception method works I think foxhunting should be made illegal.
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    (Original post by curryADD)
    because the foxes are already doing harm.....killing livestock and so forth, and if there is a population problem, let it be done unhumanely if its tradition.....
    Being hung drawn and quartered was a traditional method of death for those found guilty in the UK of crime in the 1600s (I cant remember precisely when we stopped using it). Should we still be using this excruciatingly and tortuous method in the UK now simply because it is tradition??
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    (Original post by viviki)
    The RSPCA survey showed that the population of foxes was not significantly higher after a 10 month foxhunting ban, this indicates that foxhunting does not significantly lower the fox population. In which case it is simply sport and animal cruelty which should be made illegal. If tests in Australia show that the contraception method works I think foxhunting should be made illegal.
    There wouldn't be a significant increase after 10 months.
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    (Original post by Empedocles)
    And like I said before, the fox even has a chance to escape. Not much chance against a bullet.
    exactly!
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    (Original post by Sazzle)
    Any hunt I have been involved with have only hunted on land with the owners permission, the followers have been very good in being careful of the crops, shutting gates etc.
    To be fair, you've been on one hunt. That doesn't account for all.

    (Original post by Sazzle)
    Over here horses in general are not just an activity for the middle/upper classes so hunting is no more of a snobbish sport, but I do get the impression that in England it is more like that.
    Believe me, where I live (Devon) it is. Just riding a horse, perhaps not, but the whole entanglement of jodhpurs, the red riding coats etc that are associated with a hunt are.

    (Original post by Sazzle)
    As for your last comment I refer you again to my information about farmers supporting the hunts - most recognise the bigger problem if hunting did not occur. Why not read some Horse and Hound magazines - I read the stuff in the press from the 'antis' so why not try and get a balanced feed of the arguments.
    When you say "most", what are you drawing this from?

    I have a perfectly balanced understanding of the arguments. However, the Horse and Hound is hardly an objective publication, and the "anti" stuff in the press is usually from the point of view of animal cruelty, not the effect it has on the countryside. The press assume that everyone in the country supports hunts, it's just not true.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    Being hung drawn and quartered was a traditional method of death for those found guilty in the UK of crime in the 1600s (I cant remember precisely when we stopped using it). Should we still be using this excruciatingly and tortuous method in the UK now simply because it is tradition??
    go ahead if you like, it might discourage crime.....
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    That doesnt answer my question does it?
    You are saying we should always uphold tradition?
    In which case women would never have the right to vote, you would not have adequate schooling oh and you would probably be married off at the age of 13.

    There is always room for change. I think that if advances are available where the population of foxes can be controlled scientifically we should use this rather than making a cruel sport out of it.
    **** fighting was once legal and it was a source of revenue, but it was made illegal because it is inhumane.
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    It is completely untrue that everyone from the country, hunts and supports hunts.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    That doesnt answer my question does it?
    You are saying we should always uphold tradition?
    In which case women would never have the right to vote, you would not have adequate schooling oh and you would probably be married off at the age of 13.

    There is always room for change. I think that if advances are available where the population of foxes can be controlled scientifically we should use this rather than making a cruel sport out of it.
    **** fighting was once legal and it was a source of revenue, but it was made illegal because it is inhumane.
    no, but the foxes have to be killed anyway, its not like they are about to be extinct. might as well just hunt them if they need to be killed
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    what do you do with the foxes after you have pointlessly killed them
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    (Original post by xAngelx)
    what do you do with the foxes after you have pointlessly killed them
    Make rugs out of them. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by xAngelx)
    what do you do with the foxes after you have pointlessly killed them
    It isn't pointless. The fox numbers need controlling - that's the point.
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    But it is an extremely cruel tradition. Those animals suffer, are you saying that it doesnt matter if an animal suffers if it is going to die anyway.
    Torture is illegal for humans in which case I dont see why animals should have to suffer. WHy if you could kill something in a humane way would you want to kill something in a distressing way.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    But it is an extremely cruel tradition. Those animals suffer, are you saying that it doesnt matter if an animal suffers if it is going to die anyway.
    Torture is illegal for humans in which case I dont see why animals should have to suffer. WHy if you could kill something in a humane way would you want to kill something in a distressing way.
    The fox often escapes.
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    (Original post by Alec)
    To be fair, you've been on one hunt. That doesn't account for all.
    I'm not sure where you're getting that from - I never stated how many times I've been hunting. For your information I have been 12 times in the last three years - I'm not a regular hunter but I think that's plenty to form an opinion. I have also hunted with 3 different packs, all different but all well run and appreciative of the countryside they use.

    I watched a very evenly balanced programme on Countryfile several weeks ago, most interesting. The majority of stuff in the press is very emotive and gives the 'big bad hunters' very little weight because it is seen as an upper class thing.

    My point is you argue against it when you only have the facts the press shove at you. When you read everyone's view - then we'll talk.

    Of COurse H&H is going to be pro-hunting, but if you read it you may see the arguments are very sensible and well supported.

    My point about farmers is from my own personal experience, again I state I don't know much about the English scene but here we have little problem finding land to hold the hunts. And even though I'm not a regular follower (Not overly keen on the jumping lark!) I am involved with those that are and so know the realities of it.
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    Well if the fox often escapes then foxhunting obviously isnt an effective method of culling the fox population is it?

    And what about all the foxes that dont escape, its ok to torture them because some get away?
 
 
 
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