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Jewish girl tries to criticise Dr. Norman Finkelstein

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Slavery wasn't organised? I assure you it was one of the most organised organisations to have ever of existed. It required vast amounts of communication, cooperation and transportation. It was a highly organised business. It wasn't designed to wipe an entire race from the population but instead served to demonise a race to this day. Slavery wasn't a product of racism, racism was a product of slavery. It was justified by the fact African's weren't Christian but the negative stereotypes of black people that are still with us today developed out of slavery. Slavery also led to a mass destruction of African civilisation's by plunging the continent into a continuous state of warfare for over 200 years. It depopulated the continent a damaged its growth. Its affects are far further reaching and damaging than the holocaust.

Stalin's purges were not as organised as the holocaust but they still had a damaging affect in Russian society. They didn't aim to destroy a race instead they aimed to destroy all people who disagreed with Stalin's views. Why is that better than trying to destroy a race?

The famine's in China may of had a good intention but they had a terrible outcome. Their evidence that we shouldn't evaluate the morality of something based on its intent.If we did we would see these famines as a great thing as the policies that caused them intended to make china great.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 81

Rhadamanthus

jumpingjesusholycow

Yes. The video of Dr. Finkelstein explaining why he is opposed to Israel's oppression of the Palestinian state inspires me. Is that okay with you, your Lordship? Sheesh. Just stop being so fricken sensitive. Just because I find the video inspiring, doesn't mean I'm weak willed. But whatever, why don't you go looking for another Israel thread for you to lord over how important you being jewish is. I'm tired of people like you :nothing:

No, I'm tired of people like you who drool over one ridiculous video where two idiots basically shout at each other, just because the guy has the same views as you. It's alright to be pro-Pal, it's alright to be whatever you want. What annoys me is the way by which people regard Finkelstein and Chomsky as gods, and take everything they say as holy writ.

And yes, it annoys me when pro-Israelis do this with Dershowitz too.

Reply 82

Rhadamanthus

ChaoticMaster

Slavery was not designed to wipe out a race of people. It was a disgusting system that is on par in terms of the lack of humanity involved with genocides, but this is still remembered. You will find blacks in America using the slavery idea to advance Affirmative Action etc., not to say that it's a bad thing that they're trying to right the wrongs, it's just they're going the wrong way about it.

Stalin's purges were not as organised as the holocaust but they still had a damaging affect in Russian society. They didn't aim to destroy a race instead they aimed to destroy all people who disagreed with Stalin's views. Why is that better than trying to destroy a race?

Yes, they did. But they were not set out to target a specific group, just anyone he disagreed with - a million or so who were Jewish. Stalin's antisemitism is well documented.

The famine's in China may of had a good intention but they had a terrible outcome. Their evidence that we shouldn't evaluate the morality of something based on its intent.If we did we would see these famines as a great thing as the policies that caused them intended to make china great.

They were started for a good intention, and they people who instigated the horrible thing were not setting out to kill a certain group of people.

Anyway, I'm not having the argument of what genocide was worse than the other. They were all abhorrent.

Reply 83

moregano

Oh come on. You're not claiming that the Holocaust was "worse" than everything he mentioned? That makes you as bad as them - the Holocaust was horrific but you can't put it up there as the number one tragic historical event. This little game of "let's see who had it worse" is irrelevant and stupid.

And I know that in this case, the OP brought it up with the thread subject, but I get tired of the Holocaust being brought up in every single Israel/Palestine debate. By both sides. We should all be able to form intelligent arguments without resorting to either "We were treated worse than anyone ever has been", or "You evil Zionists are just like Nazis". It's pathetic. :nothing:

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 84

Rhadamanthus

moregano

If you'd noticed my last post, I said, "Anyway, I'm not having the argument of what genocide was worse than the other. They were all abhorrent."

Reply 85

ciawhobat

BOBO777

I along with others on this thread understood it, maybe you didn't.

As I keep saying - I don't. Maybe someone could dumb it down for me. I have no idea what the speaker's position is on the wider issue, nor what the girl's position was. The video is just two idiots getting all emo.

Reply 86

moregano

I know. Doesn't change the rest of what you've said though.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 87

User414413

moregano

No, I'm just saying that the fact that he's Jewish doesn't mean he can say whatever he wants without it being anti-semitic. That's obvious, no?

In general however, comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany are bordering on anti-semitism imo, for several reasons:
a)Israel is persistently highlighted and attacked, and whilst I'm not claiming that the Israeli government "can do no wrong", there are far worse things happening in the world. Why single out Israel time and time again, and ignore everything else?
b)The comparison to Nazi Germany is one which seems to be kept exclusively for criticisms of Israel. Considering the history of Israeli Jews, and the fact that in all honesty, the Israel/Palestine conflict is far more complex and far more two-sided than what went on in Nazi Germany, it's not the most appropriate comparison to make, and seems to be made deliberately to cause controversy and upset people.

I thought anti-Semitism was prejudice against Jews not Israel.

Reply 88

BOBO777

Annoying-Mouse

I thought anti-Semitism was prejudice against Jews not Israel.

Israeli Zionists
Nazi Germans

Both the same.

Reply 89

Rhadamanthus

moregano

I know. Doesn't change the rest of what you've said though.

What? That no other genocide was as orchestrated as the Holocaust? That's historical fact.

I was not saying it was any worse though.

Reply 90

moregano

Annoying-Mouse

I thought anti-Semitism was prejudice against Jews not Israel.

In the cases I highlighted, selectively highlighting and criticising Israel and using the Nazi comparison tends to be linked with anti-semitism. In other words, anti-semites use criticism of Israel as an excuse to criticise Jews in general, or they selectively criticise Israel because of anti-semitic motives.

Reply 91

Guwt

ChaoticMaster

Slavery; Stalin; Mao.

It is not a numbers game, mate. In my opinion, that certain institutions and individuals caused more deaths is irrelevant. What matters to me is the intention behind the action. For this reason, the Holocaust is particularly horrifying.

Reply 92

User414413

moregano

Isn’t that kind of the same as saying that because I hate the Nigerians, I am racist as for I am using Nigeria as a front to show my prejudiced against black people? But, in reality I don’t care about Ethiopian Jews, just Zionist Israelis.

Reply 93

jumpingjesusholycow

lol, fair enough. You have a right to be 'annoyed' by whatever you want, but I don't think it'll do you much good. Oh, you're tired of people who like videos which have a general inclination toward their own beliefs/values/agenda? I suppose your sig has absolutely nothing to do with that eh? :rolleyes:

As for why I'm inspired by the video, i'm inspired because it shows me that Jews can be just as for the rights of palestinians as anyone else, and that being Jewish does NOT mean condoning violence, does NOT mean being faithful to a terrorist state, does NOT being bombing innocent people etc.

It's a great argument against anti-semitism.

And yes, I believe people like you, only fuel more anti-semitism.

And it's a crying shame :/

Oh well, go ahead and get worked up over youtube videos and the people who are inspired by them if that's what you want, but dude, try and take a chill pill.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 94

moregano

Why highlight the fact that the Holocaust was particularly well-organised and carefully orchestrated, if not to try and give it more weight in the "which genocide was the worst" competition? It may well be a historical fact, but why bring it up?

Anti-Zionists often like to claim that Jews/Israelis/Zionists use the Holocaust as an "excuse"; a "get out of jail free card", and try to make out that it was the worst genocide ever to happen. By entering into this pathetic little "who had it worst" game by comparing how carefully other tragic historical events were orchestrated, you're giving them exactly what they want.

You can do better than that :nothing:

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 95

ChaoticMaster

Guwt

I don't deny that its a horrifying event but in my opinion it is no more horrifying that capturing another human being, taking him against his will using extremely violent methods, in terrible conditions from their home to the slave ships in which these people were stored as cargo in disgusting conditions to be taken from their families, homeland and tribes to be used as labour. Treated in ways that are horrifying. Whipping was a nice punishment but slavers got inventive. One mild example is forcing one slave to **** into another slaves mouth and forcing that slave to eat it.

To me that is equally horrifying but the scale of it makes it more horrifying.

Reply 96

moregano

Annoying-Mouse

Isn’t that kind of the same as saying that because I hate the Nigerians, I am racist...

That would make you racist, yes.

...as for I am using Nigeria as a front to show my prejudiced against black people? But, in reality I don’t care about Ethiopian Jews, just Zionist Israelis.

Criticising Israelis =/= criticising Israel/the Israeli government.

You're crossing a line there. It's like the difference between me saying "I hate Obama" and "I hate Americans".

Reply 97

Rhadamanthus

jumpingjesusholycow

The video in my sig is to show that Israel does try to do some good, but of course, for the sake of the politics, you're not going to recognise that, are you?

Hmm, terrorist state, condoning violence and bombing innocent people... seems like the Hamas charter to me.

It's a great argument against anti-semitism. And yes, I believe people like you, only fuel more anti-semitism.

No, it's more people like you, who criticise everyone for using the anti-Semitism argument to such an extent that the true anti-Semitism is unheard of. I am trying to argue the case for peace. If that's what you feel causes anti-Semitism then God help trying to negotiate with you.

And it's a crying shame :/

Nice to see you take such a sarcastic, laissez faire attitude to the rising anti-Semitism in Europe and around the world. So much for fighting for people's rights.

Oh well, go ahead and get worked up over youtube videos and the people who are inspired by them if that's what you want, but dude, try and take a chill pill.