Jesus Died in Kashmir! - BBC Documentary

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Peace World
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:eek3:

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DXCZ...eature=related

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T340D...eature=related

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cy8M...eature=related

Each part is about 10 mins long, if not bothered, I think you should watch the third part, as I think that it is the most relevant.

Discuss.
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Elipz
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A belief that Jesus survived the crucifixion and spent his remaining years in Kashmir has led to a run-down shrine in Srinagar making it firmly onto the must-visit-in India tourist trail.
Rozabal shrine, Srinagar
Jesus is reputed to be buried in this run-down shrine in the Kashmir capital

In the backstreets of downtown Srinagar is an old building known as the Rozabal shrine.

It's in a part of the city where the Indian security forces are on regular patrol, or peering out from behind check-posts made of sandbags.

There are still occasional clashes with militants or stone-throwing children, but the security situation has improved in recent times and the tourists are returning.

When I first searched for Rozabal two years ago, the taxi circled around a minor Muslim tomb in a city of many mosques and mausoleums, the driver asking directions several times before we found it.

The shrine, on a street corner, is a modest stone building with a traditional Kashmiri multi-tiered sloping roof.

A watchman led me in and encouraged me to inspect the smaller wooden chamber within, with its trellis-like, perforated screen.

Through the gaps I could see a gravestone covered with a green cloth.

When I returned to the shrine recently though, it was shut - its gate padlocked because it had attracted too many visitors.

The reason? Well, according to an eclectic combination of New Age Christians, unorthodox Muslims and fans of the Da Vinci Code, the grave contains the mortal remains of a candidate for the most important visitor of all time to India.

'Crazy professor'

Officially, the tomb is the burial site of Youza Asaph, a medieval Muslim preacher - but a growing number of people believe that it is in fact the tomb of Jesus of Nazareth.

Map showing location of Srinagar

They believe that Jesus survived the crucifixion almost 2,000 Easters ago, and went to live out his days in Kashmir.

"What else could they do? They had to close it," Riaz told me.

His family home almost overlooks the shrine, and he is witheringly dismissive of the notion that Jesus was buried there.

"It's a story spread by local shopkeepers, just because some crazy professor said it was Jesus's tomb. They thought it would be good for business. Tourists would come, after all these years of violence.

"And then it got into the Lonely Planet, and too many people started coming.

"And one foreigner…" he gave me an apologetic look, "broke off a bit from the tomb to take home with him. So that's why it's closed now."

On cue, a couple of unwashed and exhausted Australians appeared, carrying the latest edition of the Lonely Planet travel guide to India, which, sure enough, carried the tale of Jesus's tomb, with some caveats about crackpots and blasphemy.

They asked me to take a photo of them outside the shrine - but were not desperately disappointed that it was closed.

The tomb of Jesus was just another place to tick off on their tourist-in-India must-visit list.

Famous meeting
Buddhist monastery, Srinagar
The remains of a Buddhist monastery which some believe Jesus visited

The ruins of a Buddhist monastery in a spectacular location halfway up a mountainside north of Srinagar are not, yet, mentioned in the Lonely Planet.

It's a spot that I had previously been unable to visit, because as a senior police officer told me, it was "infested with terrorists".

But the watchman now seemed prepared for the arrival of mass tourism, with his 50 words of English, and his hidden stock of ancient terracotta tiles for sale.

He informed me that Jesus was among the religious leaders who attended a famous Buddhist meeting here in AD80, and even pointed to the place where he sat.

The stories of Jesus in India are not just aimed at gullible tourists - they date back to the 19th Century.

They were part of attempts to explain the striking similarities between Christianity and Buddhism, a matter of great concern to 19th Century scholars - and also a desire among some Christians to root the story of Jesus in Indian soil.

Missing years

There is talk of the missing years of Jesus, unmentioned in the gospels, when he was between the ages of 12 and 30.

Woman kisses statuette of Jesus, in Srinagar Cathedral
Christians form a little more than 2% of India's population

Some say he was in India, picking up Buddhist ideas. These aren't notions that have entirely died out.

The US-based Christian sect, known as the Church Universal and Triumphant, is the best-known modern supporter of the belief that Jesus lived in Kashmir, though they don't believe he died there.

And in Islam, in which Jesus is the penultimate prophet, there is also a minority tradition adopted by the controversial Ahmadiyya sect , that Rozabal does contain the grave of Jesus.

Professional historians tend to laugh out loud when you mention the notion that Jesus might have lived in Kashmir - but his tomb is now firmly on the tourist trail - and a growing number of credulous visitors believe that he was buried in the Rozabal shrine.

And for those who scoff, remember that others have argued, just as implausibly, that Jesus came to Britain.

A theory that was much in vogue when the poet William Blake famously asked: "And did those feet in ancient time, walk upon England's mountains green? And was the holy Lamb of God on England's pleasant pastures seen?"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/8587838.stm

And from your sig, being a muslim, the fact that it is an Ahmadiyya belief that Jesus went to Kashmir, how does it impact on you?
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Peace World
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(Original post by Elipz)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/8587838.stm

And from your sig, being a muslim, the fact that it is an Ahmadiyya belief that Jesus went to Kashmir, how does it impact on you?
That bbc news is basically in words rather than video.
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looking243
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(Original post by Peace World)
That bbc news is basically in words rather than video.
Does your statement even answer the question that was posed upon you?
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User414413
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(Original post by Peace World)
That bbc news is basically in words rather than video.
Are you a sunni or ahmedi?
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DJkG.1
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I remember reading a pamphlet about this in India from this guy who tried to sell me a book on it.

Wish I had bought it then, way cheaper than how much it is on Amazon UK.
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Peace World
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(Original post by looking243)
Does your statement even answer the question that was posed upon you?
It doesn't impact me.
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(Original post by Peace World)
It doesn't impact me.
Answer my question. Are you an ahmedia? Most of your links seem to come from that website.
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Peace World
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(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Answer my question. Are you an ahmedia? Most of your links seem to come from that website.
Sorry, I was going to answer your question, but I had to rush off in emergency. Im an Ahmadi. Why?
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(Original post by Peace World)
Sorry, I was going to answer your question, but I had to rush off in emergency. Im an Ahmadi. Why?
Because I am surprised that a non-Muslim (Ahmadi) speaks for the Islamic community when making threads and statements. So, where you raised as an Ahmadi by your parents, or did you just become one? Why are you still one?
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Peace World
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(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Because I am surprised that a non-Muslim (Ahmadi) speaks for the Islamic community when making threads and statements. So, where you raised as an Ahmadi by your parents, or did you just become one? Why are you still one?
What do you mean? I am a muslim. I am an Ahmadi too, just like there are sunni and shia muslims. Therefore I speak for the Islamic community. Please don't be influenced by other people who say that Ahmadis are non-muslims. Surely everyone has rights to describe themselves as muslims. I was a born Ahmadi and am one. But we seem to be diverting away from the thread.
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(Original post by Peace World)
What do you mean? I am a muslim. I am an Ahmadi too, just like there are sunni and shia muslims. Therefore I speak for the Islamic community. Please don't be influenced by other people who say that Ahmadis are non-muslims. Surely everyone has rights to describe themselves as muslims. I was a born Ahmadi and am one. But we seem to be diverting away from the thread.
How can you be a Muslim? You believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a messiah. Islam teaches Jesus was the messiah. Contradiction?
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Peace World
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(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
How can you be a Muslim? You believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a messiah. Islam teaches Jesus was the messiah. Contradiction?
I would not like to go in detailed discussions, but we believe that the prophecies regarding the second coming of Jesus were metaphorical, i.e. the Jesus to come down will not be same Jesus, but will be similar in terms of his character, events etc. We also believe that Jesus is has passed away like any other normal Prophet of God.

Similarly, there are differences between Sunni and Shia. Sunnis can say that You beileve in x, whereas Islam teaches us y. How can you be a muslim?
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(Original post by Peace World)
I would not like to go in detailed discussions, but we believe that the prophecies regarding the second coming of Jesus were metaphorical, i.e. the Jesus to come down will not be same Jesus, but will be similar in terms of his character, events etc. We also believe that Jesus is has passed away like any other normal Prophet of God.

Similarly, there are differences between Sunni and Shia. Sunnis can say that You beileve in x, whereas Islam teaches us y. How can you be a muslim?
But, many Sunni don't even regard shias as Muslims.
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(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
But, many Sunni don't even regard shias as Muslims.
This is what I disagree with. Surely everyone has the right to call himself whatever he wants to be called. At the end of the day, it is God who is the best of all Judges. Why should normal humans have the right to pass judgements?
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qasidb
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wow. another ahmadi on tsr.
i'm one too.
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muffingg
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(Original post by DJkG.1)
I remember reading a pamphlet about this in India from this guy who tried to sell me a book on it.

Wish I had bought it then, way cheaper than how much it is on Amazon UK.
If you are still interested in reading a book about that, follow the link below. This is an e-book on the Internet that might be the same as the one you were offered to buy.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books...dia/index.html
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muffingg
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(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
How can you be a Muslim? You believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a messiah. Islam teaches Jesus was the messiah. Contradiction?
First of all this is arguable. The only one condition you have to follow to be a Muslim is to believe in the Kalima Shahada. This states only that there is noone worthy of worship except Allah and Mohammed (saw) is his servant and messenger.

We completely believe in this and therefore we are Muslims. Everything else is arguable.

I don't want to be offensive, but as far as I am aware, Shi'ahs believe in a slightly different Kalima, which would rather mean that they are 'less' Muslim than us. As I said, I don't want to be offensive and debate about that, because I am not aware of the Shi'ahs that much.

It is only the Pakistanis that do not call us Muslims. The whole world knows that we are Muslims. Apart from believing in the Kalima, we also pray 5 times a day the same way as other Muslims do. We also read the same Qur'an as the other Muslims do. We have always spread peace, which is the definition of the world Islam.

So, please do not say we are non-Muslims.

Wasalam
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muffingg
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(Original post by Peace World)
This is what I disagree with. Surely everyone has the right to call himself whatever he wants to be called. At the end of the day, it is God who is the best of all Judges. Why should normal humans have the right to pass judgements?
You are right! Allah does not give any human the right to call someone a Non-Muslim if that other person does not claim that. If I say I am an Ahmadi Muslim, noone in the world can say that I am a non-Muslim.
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Studentus-anonymous
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Split denominations within split religions, and no-one seems to look at this sorry state of affairs and think "well if everyone has their own opinions on what is godly, maybe...just maybe humans know jack **** about divinity".

Heh.
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