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    We have all seen on the news how Israeli forces are removing settlers and settlements in the Gaza strip. One may find it easy to applaud Sharon's administration for such actions and steps towards reconciliation however, one must avoid being so easily mislead by this terrorist.

    While settlements in Gaza are being removed what is going to happen in the West Bank? We will begin to see an increasing amount of radical jews (zionists) migrating to the West Bank and the creation of more illegal settlements on Palestinian land. The West Bank is of much greater interest to the Isrealis, both spiritually and politically and a stronger zionist presence in this volatile area is part of Sharons longer term plan. In the long run the only thing i can envisage is greater hardship for the Palestinians. The current pull out i feel is no moe than a publicity stunt to win over the international community.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Some people won't be satisfied until all the Jews are driven into the sea (as is the official position of the PLO and Hamas).
    Equally some people wont be satisified until all of the land of Israel (Which according to the bible, includes areas of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon amongst others) is populated by Jews.

    The point is if you ask your average run of the mill Palestinian what they most want is thier OWN land back
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    The only Palestinians who lost land to Israel are long dead.
    I suppose that makes it OK to steel Land
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    The only Palestinians who lost land to Israel are long dead.
    As are the Jews who took their land.. I don't see what difference that makes.
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    (Original post by YaMahdi)
    I suppose that makes it OK to steel Land
    Which land was stolen? Ownership of land is not the same as having sovereignty over land.

    (Original post by violet)
    As are the Jews who took their land.. I don't see what difference that makes.
    It's hard to return something to someone who's no longer alive.
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    And it's equally hard for the dead person to return it. So?
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Which land was stolen? Ownership of land is not the same as having sovereignty over land.



    It's hard to return something to someone who's no longer alive.

    Bismarck, you present a strange argument. The fact is Jews stole land from Palestinians, it doesnt really matter when but they did.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Which land did they steal? In the parts of the West Bank were Jewish settlers currently live, was this land ever owned by Palestinian landowners? Last time I checked, the land was deserted.
    Listen. Before the Balfour decleration Arab Jews and Arab Muslims lived peacefully side by side (Palestine). The creation of the state of Israel meant kicking Palestinians out of nearly all their land. Modern day Israel is merely occupied Palestinian territory.
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    All of Palestine?
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    But don't you think it's even the SLIGHTEST bit unfair that all they "get" now is Gaza and West Bank - which still has thousands of Jews living in it.
    If it's not stealing then what is it? Kicking out?
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Nonsense. Arabs were committing pogroms against Jews living in Palestine, especially religious scholars, on a regular basis, long before the creation of Israel.
    So where the Europeans?! Plus you have no concrete proof.

    However, lets not stray. The point is Palestinian land was stolen and then occupied under the banner of Israel. Everyone knows that.

    Why dont you concentrate more on my original post. Dont want this turining into a seperate debate.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Some people won't be satisfied until all the Jews are driven into the sea (as is the official position of the PLO and Hamas).
    do you acknowledge that the emigration to israel of principally hardline zionists rather than more moderate jews is exacerbating internal conflicts in israel..?
    i mean many of the hardline israelis who joined the settlers (and indeed the gaza settlers themselves) were relatively recent immigrants to israel from 1967 onwards - alot from the US, canada and somewhere else (i remeber reading that there were loads from somewhere random like east africa... :confused: )
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Who was kicked out and from where?
    The British.... Who dya think?
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    do you acknowledge that the emigration to israel of principally hardline zionists rather than more moderate jews is exacerbating internal conflicts in israel..?
    i mean many of the hardline israelis who joined the settlers (and indeed the gaza settlers themselves) were relatively recent immigrants to israel from 1967 onwards - alot from the US, canada and somewhere else (i remeber reading that there were loads from somewhere random like east africa... :confused: )
    And Russia? Or am i getting confused with something else... Meh.
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    do you acknowledge that the emigration to israel of principally hardline zionists rather than more moderate jews is exacerbating internal conflicts in israel..?
    i mean many of the hardline israelis who joined the settlers (and indeed the gaza settlers themselves) were relatively recent immigrants to israel from 1967 onwards - alot from the US, canada and somewhere else (i remeber reading that there were loads from somewhere random like east africa... :confused: )
    You raise a good point. Yes those east african migrnats are mainly ethiopian jews who belong to a cult whose name i cant remember. Just for the record they are given an extremely hard time in Israel for the colour of thier skin. You will never see a high ranking, socially elite black jew in Isreal or the settlements.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    The Palestinians never owned all the land in Palestine, and they never had sovereignty over a single foot of Palestine. Most landowners in Palestine willingly sold their land to Jews (for inflated prices), most of these landowners being Syrian aristocrats.
    which as i have mentioned many times before (and you forget everytime) they aquired through deceptive corrupt underhand methods. it wasn't their land to sell.
    Just like the land being bought by chav british families in turkish cyprus often isn't the turkish cypriots to sell
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    :rolleyes:

    How about the dead bodies of dozens of Jewish scholars?



    Who was it stolen from? The Syrian aristocrats who willingly sold to Jews?
    Yadi Yadi Yiddo Ya.

    If you choose to igonre history then there is no point arguing with you.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Well it's not like many non-religious Jews would move from the US to Israel. The standard of living here is significantly higher. The only people who move to Israel are the extremely religious ones. I'm sure they're not helping matters in Israel, but they make up a small portion of the settler movement.



    I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that black Jews make up an insignificant portion of Israelis, or the fact that most of them have become citizens only recently? Perhaps we should talk about how blacks are treated in Sudan?
    a small but very vocal, and very powerful movement.

    i mean many of the laws directed towards the rather extrme/ultra-religious jewish sects are rather unfair.
    for isntance why should all the other more moderate jews serve national service and these orthodox jews not [especially considering that orthodox jews are amongst the most vocal in support of further settling in the occupied territories, and least supportive of any compromise]

    i mean how would you feel if the US enacted a law to give extra tax breaks to Chritian clerics (pastors, priests etc) but not imams, rabbis etc...?
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    (Original post by YaMahdi)
    You raise a good point. Yes those east african migrnats are mainly ethiopian jews who belong to a cult whose name i cant remember. Just for the record they are given an extremely hard time in Israel for the colour of thier skin. You will never see a high ranking, socially elite black jew in Isreal or the settlements.
    mmm, apparently theywere one of the lost tribes of israel or something.they found another in indian territory, but the scholars of israel weren't too accepting of allowing them right to return not least because of the colour of their skin, but also because their religion has deviated ever so slightly to the mainstream jewish. [odd this is a neg point considering how many valid variations there are of any major religion]
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Orthodox Jews do serve in the IDF; only a few small sects don't serve.
    if an orthodox jew studdies the torah at university they don't have to go into the IDF. If anyone else studies anything else at university they aren't exempt.
    i think thats right anyway...
 
 
 
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