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I'm terrible at M2. Please help!!

Is there something deeply wrong with me here? Just nothing seems to be going in. AT ALL.

Anyway, if some kind person can help me a lot I'll give them rep.

http://www.mei.org.uk/files/papers/m205ju_ftnd74.pdf

Question 2:
(i). Okay, so the gain in gravitational ponential energy is 499800j.
WHY must we divide this by the time taken to get that high up? I thought power = force*velocity. So why do we do this :s-smilie:?

(ii) is okay. Fair enough.

(iii) Is okay as well.

(iv) Okay so.
Is it 0.5*850(20^2-15^2) = work done by resistive force (which is negative) + work done by forward force.

so work done by reistive force is -800x where x is the distance.

and power = F*V
= F*s/t
so is that why you multiply power by t? to find the forward work done?



(v)

we're dealing with a LOSS of potential energy, right?
so 1/2*m(v^2-u^2) is negative. So the total work done is negative, right?

so 0.5*850(v^2-20^2) =.... ?
okay, here I'm a bit confused.

Let positive be up the plane, right? So we're losing KE as we're going up the plane. So weight acts downwards and is negative. And the resistive force is engative too, right?

so isn't it:
0.5*850(v^2-20^2) = -800*105 - 0.05*9.8*850?
this gives a wrong answer.

help please. I don't even understand the markscheme :s-smilie:
Reply 1
For the first one, yes, Power=Fv\text{Power}=Fv, but also Poweravg=ΔWork DoneΔTime\text{Power}_{avg}=\frac{\Delta Work\ Done}{\Delta Time}

Spoiler



Similarly for the next part you asked about (when Power is constant), Work=Power×time\text{Work}=\text{Power} \times \text{time}. Does that help?

Finally, you want to find the Work Done by the weight, not just the size of the force. i.e. you need to times 0.05*9.8*850 (the component of weight acting down the plane) by the distance, and then take this away.

If I missed something out, or it didn't make sense, you could ask again. But hopefully that helps :smile:.
Reply 2
gcseeeman
For the first one, yes, Power=Fv\text{Power}=Fv, but also Poweravg=ΔWork DoneΔTime\text{Power}_{avg}=\frac{\Delta Work\ Done}{\Delta Time}

Spoiler



Similarly for the next part you asked about (when Power is constant), Work=Power×time\text{Work}=\text{Power} \times \text{time}. Does that help?

Finally, you want to find the Work Done by the weight, not just the size of the force. i.e. you need to times 0.05*9.8*850 (the component of weight acting down the plane) by the distance, and then take this away.

If I missed something out, or it didn't make sense, you could ask again. But hopefully that helps :smile:.



Thanks for your help.

Your first line. Power = FU? What is F? Force? And U? Velocity?

And AVERAGE power = change in work done divided by change in time?
So in the context of the question (i), what's the CHANGE in work done? From time = 0 to time = 20 seconds?

So work done is 0J at time = 0 seconds, and work done from t = 0 to t = 20 seconds is what? Why is it only the increase in GPE? What about the work done by the driving force of the car up the slope? What about the work done by the car's weight :s-smilie:?

Is it because, since it's travelling at a constant speed, the driving force up the ramp is net 0?


What about the weight though? If we draw a right angled triangle, with the degree of the slope to the horizontal as Y for example, I can see how the distance the car travels is 60/sin(Y) and work done all cancels nicely into the mgh form. But weight is acting DOWN the slope, isn't it? So shouldn't this be negative?
---------------


(iv) work = power*time is meant to help me here?
So I still use 1/2m(v^2-u^2), right?
So that's change in total KE. Which is also work done, isn't it? When you're given power and time you just end up with some figure.

Is it: work done iN THE DIRECTION OF MOTION BY DRIVING FORCE = power * time. Then I include the resistive force too?

What actually is the work done in the equation: work done = PT. Work done by what?


(V) I get your solution perfectly well. But what on Earth is the markscheme donig? What's the 105/20 about? Or their other alternative solution? Both are different to ours, no?
Reply 3
Tallon
Thanks for your help.

Your first line. Power = FU? What is F? Force? And U? Velocity?


It's a V. Latex just makes it look weird. i.e. velocity, yes. And F is force. It's what you used.

Tallon
And AVERAGE power = change in work done divided by change in time?
So in the context of the question (i), what's the CHANGE in work done? From time = 0 to time = 20 seconds?

So work done is 0J at time = 0 seconds, and work done from t = 0 to t = 20 seconds is what? Why is it only the increase in GPE? What about the work done by the driving force of the car up the slope? What about the work done by the car's weight :s-smilie:?

Is it because, since it's travelling at a constant speed, the driving force up the ramp is net 0?

What about the weight though? If we draw a right angled triangle, with the degree of the slope to the horizontal as Y for example, I can see how the distance the car travels is 60/sin(Y) and work done all cancels nicely into the mgh form. But weight is acting DOWN the slope, isn't it? So shouldn't this be negative?
---------------


Average power is just power in this case as it is constant, but that's the correct way to state that equation more generally.

The 'work done' in only the change in GPE in this case because it is travelling at a constant speed i.e. the forces on it are balanced parallel to the slope. The driving force, for example, will do work, but an equal amount of work is done opposing this by the weight acting down the slope. The KE stays the same so the only change in energy is GPE (another way to look at the equation is Power = Energy Transferred/Time). This still probably isn't that good of an explanation, sorry. Hopefully it's a little better though. :frown:.


Tallon

(iv) work = power*time is meant to help me here?
So I still use 1/2m(v^2-u^2), right?
So that's change in total KE. Which is also work done, isn't it? When you're given power and time you just end up with some figure.

Is it: work done iN THE DIRECTION OF MOTION BY DRIVING FORCE = power * time. Then I include the resistive force too?

What actually is the work done in the equation: work done = PT. Work done by what?


Being horizontal, the net work done is simply the change in KE i.e. 12×850×(202152)\frac{1}{2} \times 850 \times (20^2-15^2).

This is the work done by the driving force - work done by resistance. You work out the work done by the resistance like you originally did as 800x (where x is the distance). You use the equation W = p.t for the work done by the driving force (as all you really know ifs that the power is 25000 and it acts for 6.9 seconds).

You already have a mark scheme so this working doesn't add much, but leads to...



Tallon
(V) I get your solution perfectly well. But what on Earth is the markscheme donig? What's the 105/20 about? Or their other alternative solution? Both are different to ours, no?


Dividing by 20 is the same as multiplying by 0.05; they have it in the form mgh, where 10520\frac{105}{20} is the height.
Reply 4
Physics Enemy
...


Hmm. You missed out the resistance in 'iii' (making acceleration actually 2), but that is probably just a misread. A bigger error in your method is that I believe you assumed constant acceleration in 'iv' (if there is acceleration with constant power and constant resistance, then it cannot also be constant), but again I think it misses out the resistance.

That aside, it's a debatable topic, but generally considered best on this forum not to immediately provide full solutions (especially considering the OP has the mark scheme which does exactly that, but needed help on understanding it).

Sorry if that came across a little harsh, I'm tired :frown:.

Edit: Seeing as you deleted the post I thought I'd remove it's contents from the quote :smile:
Reply 5
gcseeeman
It's a V. Latex just makes it look weird. i.e. velocity, yes. And F is force. It's what you used.



Average power is just power in this case as it is constant, but that's the correct way to state that equation more generally.

The 'work done' in only the change in GPE in this case because it is travelling at a constant speed i.e. the forces on it are balanced parallel to the slope. The driving force, for example, will do work, but an equal amount of work is done opposing this by the weight acting down the slope. The KE stays the same so the only change in energy is GPE (another way to look at the equation is Power = Energy Transferred/Time). This still probably isn't that good of an explanation, sorry. Hopefully it's a little better though. :frown:.


------





Okay, so the driving force of the car up and parallel to the slope is cancelled out by the resistance to motion AND the weight of the car combined?
And since Power = energy transferred/time, the only change in energy is gravitational PE, right?
Or is another way of looking at it saying, the work done BY the gravity of the car is GPE?

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