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# -*Ultimate IB Students Thread*- watch

1. ToK Essay:

Can we know something that has not yet been proven true?

Hi i just joined and came through your post...this was my first TOK presentation i did for the IB...it was really *****y...but at least these are some ideas to get you started. this is just a very rough plan of my presentation. hope it is of some help!

Can we know something that has not yet been proven true?
• First, we have to analyze the component of the question: what is knowledge? If we look up this word in an English dictionary, the explanation we receive is: “the fact or condition of knowing something or somebody through experience or association” The questions which arouse in our mind are: how do I know? What do I know? How do I know that a given assertion is true, or a given judgement is well-grounded?
• To answer these questions, including the topic of this presentation, we have to regard the 6 Areas of Knowledge: Mathematics, Natural Sciences, Human Sciences, History, Arts and Ethics.
• Mathematics: In this type of science nothing unproved can be known. As Pythagoras said, “All is number”. Everything is based on numbers. If we take, for example, the equation 1+1=2, we can realize that it is a proven concept. This is what mathematics is, in general. All mathematics consists of proven laws and theories. Hence, each single mathematical expression has to be proven true, or untrue if it does not have any solution.
• Natural Sciences: Here, however, the answer to the question is affirmative. As a good example we can take the law of gravity, established by Isaac Newton. Drop a pencil, drop a book, drop a ball, drop a ruler, in fact drop anything that is heavier than air, and it will fall. This particular type of knowledge is a systematic knowledge, i.e. a knowledge based on systems- repetition of experiences. If I release an object in the air and it falls, if I repeat this action 5 times, I can assume according to my experience that the 6th time I drop it, it will fall again. Thus, we know that there is a gravity force, but we cannot prove it. Isaac Newton knew what gravity did (he could describe its behavior), but he could not explain why gravity did it. Even today the topic of what gravity really is, is an active topic for scientific discussion.
• Human Sciences: The human sciences seek to explain or to understand human behaviour. It deals with the mysterious human mind and with its feelings (psychology). If I killed a relative of smb., this smb would hate me and I know he/she would try to make my life impossible. However, I wouldn’t be able to apply any scientific proof to my statement. Thus, in this area of knowledge we can indeed know something that has not been proven.
• History: History is different from the other human sciences and the answer to our question may be yes or no. Although we cannot directly observe the past, we know that Adolf Hitler was a German dictator and that there has been a Spanish Civil War due to the primary sources we still have nowadays like movies, photographs, telegrams, etc.
Yet there have been some exceptions when people thought they knew something that were, however, fallacious facts. Ex. The massacre of Katyn in 1939, when Russian troops murdered Polish officer in order to establish their own soviet rulers in the country. For over 40 years it was believed that the Nazis were responsible for this mass murder. However, in 1985 Gorbachev opened the archives and delivered the documents to the Polish government, where it was proved that the KGB organized that massacre.
• Arts: the answer for this is yes. The arts are diverse: their content, forms and methods are often dissimilar, and the understanding and appreciation of them is more subjective than objective. (snow storm in north pole)
• Ethics: yes. Everybody has its own principles and religion and everybody believes that he knows that his religion is the real one, the true one. Nonetheless, we know that it cannot be proven. It is obvious that there is no scientific proof for the existence of God, since it is an abstract, spiritual matter.
In conclusion, whether we can know something that has not yet been proven true depends on the knowledge area we’re observing.
2. ^it says specifically that tok essay questions should not be used for presentations, howcome you still got to do it on one of the essay questions?
3. I am new here and read the first couple pages so here is my information:

2nd year (43 days left of school)
studying:
English 1A (HL)
Spanish (SL)
History of Americas (HL)
Math Methods
Chemistry (SL)
Econ. (HL)

My best subjects are math, econ, and some history
My extended essay was the difference between medical care in the United States and Argentina and how abortion care (specifically trama care) is effected by the socioeconomic gap

ToK presentation: debate over....can't really remember did it last November or so
ToK essay: the culture filters one

good luck to everyone in IB
4. (Original post by Linda)
^it says specifically that tok essay questions should not be used for presentations, howcome you still got to do it on one of the essay questions?
It was just the teacher's mistake...he did not know that, i guess )
but then he didn't let us use the presentation topics for our TOK essays, so it didnt really matter
5. (Original post by quesoyyo)
It was just the teacher's mistake...he did not know that, i guess )
but then he didn't let us use the presentation topics for our TOK essays, so it didnt really matter
Uh oh...you HAVE to use the 'topics' for your essays, and anything you want for your presentation, IB rules. You should tell that to your teacher, coz it's a horrible mistake.
6. (Original post by vavavoom)
Uh oh...you HAVE to use the 'topics' for your essays, and anything you want for your presentation, IB rules. You should tell that to your teacher, coz it's a horrible mistake.
That's what we did...i repeat: we used the topics for our essays, but we were not allowed to use the ones we had chosen for our presentations (not THE presentation, just one of our first practice ones). for the real one we used anything we wanted, as you say.
7. (Original post by quesoyyo)
That's what we did...i repeat: we used the topics for our essays, but we were not allowed to use the ones we had chosen for our presentations (not THE presentation, just one of our first practice ones). for the real one we used anything we wanted, as you say.
Aaaa ic ic
8. hey, i didnt know that there is an ib discussion forum here in ukl
i'm second year, taking 6 ib certificates only, not diploma, so i dont get to take tok and write extended essay. i'm just wondering... do you guys think TOK is a useful class? what do you learn by taking it?
9. (Original post by kosine90)
hey, i didnt know that there is an ib discussion forum here in ukl
i'm second year, taking 6 ib certificates only, not diploma, so i dont get to take tok and write extended essay. i'm just wondering... do you guys think TOK is a useful class? what do you learn by taking it?
I love TOK but I dont really have an educated answer for why though! I just like it because it is just so different from all the classes that I have had in all my school years...I mean, I never thought that I would be taught how to argue!! (:
Besides, I feel superior to all my friends who have no clue what I am takling about sometimes! (just kidding of course...)
10. (Original post by sarahwhatevver)
I love TOK but I dont really have an educated answer for why though! I just like it because it is just so different from all the classes that I have had in all my school years...I mean, I never thought that I would be taught how to argue!!
I guess how you view TOK really depends on the teacher you have and on how it is taught. I've done my TOK presenation and my essay and done relatively well on them: I can haul out all that stuff about 'ways of knowing' and 'areas of knowledge'. But I hated this class so much. Everything was taught in a really boring way, and discussions always went so off topic that they were of no use to anyone. I thought this class was a waste of time!
11. (Original post by kosine90)
hey, i didnt know that there is an ib discussion forum here in ukl
i'm second year, taking 6 ib certificates only, not diploma, so i dont get to take tok and write extended essay. i'm just wondering... do you guys think TOK is a useful class? what do you learn by taking it?
The teachers were dreadfully boring, and tended to just talk among themselves instead of teaching the class...nonetheless TOK was very, very useful. It really stretches your thinking.
12. Geez.. 1 + 1 = 2 is definitely not proven, only postulated; and in some cases it isn't even true.
13. Hi

I'm going start IB in Aug 2004 and I'm in the process of choosing subjects. I was wondering if anyone is currently studying Philosophy or Pychology and if they could share any info about how it's going. Thanks, good luck everyone! Kate
14. [Name] Rebecca
[IB 1st or 2nd year?] First!
[Subjects, specify if HL or SL]
- HL:
English A1
History

SL:
Maths studies
Biology
Spanish ab initio

[Strongest Subjects] All except maths
[Extended Essay Topic] Not chosen yet!!
[ToK Essay Question + Presentation]
- Not confirmed, but I'm thinking along the lines of:
How do identity and isolation manifest themselves as themes of Franz Kafka's 'The Metamorphosis'?
-
15. TOK's alright... All of my other classes can be so stressful, but TOK is more like chill out, have a discussion, find out a lot of really interesting things... And it's so nice to learn all of those things because we don't get any tests or anything. Besides, half of the time people are doing presentations .

Did you guys know that there are subliminal (sp?) messages in Disney movies??!! Apparently in Lion King when the lion goes on top of the big cliff thing it's misty, and as he roars, you can see 'sex' spelt out in the fog... It's so hard to notice, but it's obvious if somebody points it out...

And you know Alladin?? Before he's about to start singing, he mumbles something... And these people translated it, and it means "teenagers take your clothes off"!!!!
16. [Name] Mike
[IB 1st or 2nd year?] 1st
[Subjects, specify if HL or SL]
-Physics SL
-Math HL
-Psychology SL
-History HL
-Spanish SL
-English HL
[Strongest Subjects] Math.. yeah, thats it.
[Extended Essay Topic] Undecided
[ToK Essay Question + Presentation]
-Undecided
-Undecided
As I think about the seemingly endless amount of work that has been thrusted at me these past few weeks, I comfort myself with the fact that this time next year, I either won't care anymore or will have gone insane.
17. (Original post by blabber92)
TOK's alright... All of my other classes can be so stressful, but TOK is more like chill out, have a discussion, find out a lot of really interesting things... And it's so nice to learn all of those things because we don't get any tests or anything. Besides, half of the time people are doing presentations .

Did you guys know that there are subliminal (sp?) messages in Disney movies??!! Apparently in Lion King when the lion goes on top of the big cliff thing it's misty, and as he roars, you can see 'sex' spelt out in the fog... It's so hard to notice, but it's obvious if somebody points it out...

And you know Alladin?? Before he's about to start singing, he mumbles something... And these people translated it, and it means "teenagers take your clothes off"!!!!
Hahaha, yes i've read that stuff on www.snopes.com (investigates whether rumours are true). The Lion King one is unconfirmed whether it was intentional or not but the othersubliminal messages are apparently not true (eg. The Little Mermaid's Castle resembles a ****). Don't know about the Aladdin one though!!

BUT

One that is confirmed that is horrifying is that there was a nude lady in a scene in 'the Rescuers'! Shocking!! The link is here: http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/rescuers.htm

If you generally want to see rumours about Disney movies go here: http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/films.asp

Yes this has nothing to do with IB, but it's a fun read to let off steam
18. (Original post by Spartusin)
As I think about the seemingly endless amount of work that has been thrusted at me these past few weeks, I comfort myself with the fact that this time next year, I either won't care anymore or will have gone insane.
You know you've done too much IB when you are reality have filed for a divorce Teehee.
19. (Original post by Spartusin)
[Name] Mike
[IB 1st or 2nd year?] 1st
[Subjects, specify if HL or SL]
-Physics SL
-Math HL
-Psychology SL
-History HL
-Spanish SL
-English HL
[Strongest Subjects] Math.. yeah, thats it.
[Extended Essay Topic] Undecided
[ToK Essay Question + Presentation]
-Undecided
-Undecided
As I think about the seemingly endless amount of work that has been thrusted at me these past few weeks, I comfort myself with the fact that this time next year, I either won't care anymore or will have gone insane.

I was just wondering, in your opinion is Pychology at a Standard level worth taking, what's the syllabus like?
20. Moving this thread up to the top so ppl can introduce themselves~

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