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Malay - Indonesian - Filipino/Tagalog: Lexical Similarity Watch
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These three languages are apparently closely related, but I'm wondering to what extent. Indonesian is apparently a 'standardised dialect' of Malay (thanks Wiki). But Tagalog is supposedly closely related to them too.
Anybody who speaks two or three of these languages who can shed some light on this?
Are they like Danish-Norwegian-Swedish or more like Spanish-Portuguese-Italian? Perhaps even further apart?
Anybody who speaks two or three of these languages who can shed some light on this?
Are they like Danish-Norwegian-Swedish or more like Spanish-Portuguese-Italian? Perhaps even further apart?
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#2
Well as far as i know Malay and Indonesian are mutually intelligable, the pronounciation is quite different in some cases and there are some different words, so probably simular to the differences between Spanish in Latin America and Spain. Tagalog I believe is much more different to them although probably still shares some simularities as I believe they are in the same language family(?). But for instance if someone only spoke Indonesian, they would probably understand Malay fine if spoken a bit slower, but I seriously doubt they would understand Tagalog unless they knew bits of the language.
I don't speak them though so might not be completley reliable, but i have a small interest in learning Indonesian one day (if i ever find the time).
I don't speak them though so might not be completley reliable, but i have a small interest in learning Indonesian one day (if i ever find the time).
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#3
Yea i pretty much agree with the above. Indonesian and Malay are more closely related than they are with Tagalog.
I can speak Tagalog and had a brief visit to Kuala Lumpur earlier this year. I dont know if the language structure is the same but i found some common words with malay and tagalog language during my short stay.
to Lean (english) "sandal" (tagalog) "sandar" (malay) and also the word "right" which is "kanan" in both tagalog and malay. These are just from the top of my head, im sure there are more words that are common or have some sort of resemblance.
I can speak Tagalog and had a brief visit to Kuala Lumpur earlier this year. I dont know if the language structure is the same but i found some common words with malay and tagalog language during my short stay.
to Lean (english) "sandal" (tagalog) "sandar" (malay) and also the word "right" which is "kanan" in both tagalog and malay. These are just from the top of my head, im sure there are more words that are common or have some sort of resemblance.
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#4
I speak Indonesian, have Filipino friends and am living in Malaysia, so I feel like I am educated enough to give an insight on this 
Malay and Indonesian is comparable to British English and American English, as well as Castillian Spanish and Latin American Spanish. On the other hand, the relationship between Tagalog and Malay/Indonesian is that of Spanish and Portuguese.
Firstly, as an Indonesian, Malay is mutually intelligible to me, save some words. eg. driver in Indonesian is supir, and in Malay it is pemandu. Other notable ones include the difference between 'bilang (to say) (Indonesian) and 'cakap (to say)' (Malay), as well as terus (Malay) and langsung (Indonesian). Also, another mind-boggling example would be 'bisa', which in Indonesian means BOTH poison and can, as in 'I can do it', whereas in Malaysia it just means poison.
Indonesian is Dutch-influenced, so we have many Dutch-borrowed words that Malay doesn't (our alphabet being one), so Malays are often confused by our alphabet.
Other than that, we have different accents as well as different dialects, so Malay and Indonesian are often a little hard to understand because of it. Imagine placing an American with a Kansas drawl and a Welsh British with a Welsh accent in the same room! Both are speaking sort-of the same language, but let's see them try to understand each other!
Also, for Tagalog, it always frustrates me to listen to it because it sounds SO MUCH like my Indonesian (at the same intonation, pronunciation and speed) and yet I can't understand a WORD of it. That's why I compared it to Spanish and Portuguese .. two languages from the same language tree but are distinguishably different.
EDIT: I'd like to refine my answer. Right now I strongly believe the difference between Malay and Indonesian is more distinct than British and American English (or Latin American Spanish vs. Spanish from Spain), but not so distinct that it should be considered separate languages. Recently someone suggested that the difference between the two would be more comparable to the difference between Standard German and Swiss German, in which case I think that's the closest and most accurate comparison by far.
Malay and Indonesian is comparable to British English and American English, as well as Castillian Spanish and Latin American Spanish. On the other hand, the relationship between Tagalog and Malay/Indonesian is that of Spanish and Portuguese.
Firstly, as an Indonesian, Malay is mutually intelligible to me, save some words. eg. driver in Indonesian is supir, and in Malay it is pemandu. Other notable ones include the difference between 'bilang (to say) (Indonesian) and 'cakap (to say)' (Malay), as well as terus (Malay) and langsung (Indonesian). Also, another mind-boggling example would be 'bisa', which in Indonesian means BOTH poison and can, as in 'I can do it', whereas in Malaysia it just means poison.
Indonesian is Dutch-influenced, so we have many Dutch-borrowed words that Malay doesn't (our alphabet being one), so Malays are often confused by our alphabet.
Other than that, we have different accents as well as different dialects, so Malay and Indonesian are often a little hard to understand because of it. Imagine placing an American with a Kansas drawl and a Welsh British with a Welsh accent in the same room! Both are speaking sort-of the same language, but let's see them try to understand each other!
Also, for Tagalog, it always frustrates me to listen to it because it sounds SO MUCH like my Indonesian (at the same intonation, pronunciation and speed) and yet I can't understand a WORD of it. That's why I compared it to Spanish and Portuguese .. two languages from the same language tree but are distinguishably different.
EDIT: I'd like to refine my answer. Right now I strongly believe the difference between Malay and Indonesian is more distinct than British and American English (or Latin American Spanish vs. Spanish from Spain), but not so distinct that it should be considered separate languages. Recently someone suggested that the difference between the two would be more comparable to the difference between Standard German and Swiss German, in which case I think that's the closest and most accurate comparison by far.
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#5
(Original post by Slothuus)
These three languages are apparently closely related, but I'm wondering to what extent. Indonesian is apparently a 'standardised dialect' of Malay (thanks Wiki). But Tagalog is supposedly closely related to them too.
Anybody who speaks two or three of these languages who can shed some light on this?
Are they like Danish-Norwegian-Swedish or more like Spanish-Portuguese-Italian? Perhaps even further apart?
These three languages are apparently closely related, but I'm wondering to what extent. Indonesian is apparently a 'standardised dialect' of Malay (thanks Wiki). But Tagalog is supposedly closely related to them too.
Anybody who speaks two or three of these languages who can shed some light on this?
Are they like Danish-Norwegian-Swedish or more like Spanish-Portuguese-Italian? Perhaps even further apart?
In practice, it is easier for Indonesians to understand Malay than that Malaysians understanding Indonesian. This is the reason why many Indo TV shows shown on Malaysian channels have subs. This also happens to Malaysian shows shown on Indonesian TV channels.
Tagalog itself could be compared to "French" to "English". There are many words in both Indonesian and Malaysian which are present and have the same meaning in Tagalog. Tagalog is also heavily influenced by Spanish.
Example:
Indonesian_____Malay_______Tagal og_____English
Kanan________ Kanan_______Kanan______Right
Kucing________ Kuching_____ Kusing______Cat
Buka_________ Buka________Buka_______Open
Bangsa________Bangsa______ Bansa______Nation
Kambing_______Kambing_____Kambin g____Goat
Example of borrowed vocabulary is like this (in this case the word: Connection):
Indonesian
Koneksi (from Dutch: Conectie)
Malaysian
Koneksyen (from English: Connection)
Tagalog
Koneksyon (from Spanish: Conexión)
Hope my explanation is not complicated :P
I'm Indonesian and very interested in languages
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#6
I am filipino and I can tell you now it's different from Malay and Indonesian!
Tagalog is very very similar to Spanish..that's why we find it easy to both pronounce and learn spanish
Tagalog is very very similar to Spanish..that's why we find it easy to both pronounce and learn spanish
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#7
Im from the Philippines and my wife is from northern part of the Philippines. tagalog has 5000 plus spanish words thats why it sounded like Spanish. while other dialects in the Philippines maintained thier words from Malay and Indonesians. As I mentioned before, my wife can actually understand more Indonesian words from her native Ilokano dialect from the north. I believed the Spaniards concentrated their colonization in Manila and southern Islands. Also the 3rd wave of people who migrated to the Philippones are Indonesians, they settled in the northern Islands. In Ilokano they say ADA=There is. in Indonesia ADA is also there is. Luar = to go off in indonesian, Ruar in Ilokano is to go off..pls other words very closely related to Indonesian...
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#8
(Original post by mageetron)
Indonesian and Malay are like British English and American English. The only difference is that the Indonesian vocabulary is heavily influenced by Dutch, while Malaysian is more influenced by English.
In practice, it is easier for Indonesians to understand Malay than that Malaysians understanding Indonesian. This is the reason why many Indo TV shows shown on Malaysian channels have subs. This also happens to Malaysian shows shown on Indonesian TV channels.
Tagalog itself could be compared to "French" to "English". There are many words in both Indonesian and Malaysian which are present and have the same meaning in Tagalog. Tagalog is also heavily influenced by Spanish.
Example:
Indonesian_____Malay_______Tagal og_____English
Kanan________ Kanan_______Kanan______Right
Kucing________ Kuching_____ Kusing______Cat
Buka_________ Buka________Buka_______Open
Bangsa________Bangsa______ Bansa______Nation
Kambing_______Kambing_____Kambin g____Goat
Example of borrowed vocabulary is like this (in this case the word: Connection):
Indonesian
Koneksi (from Dutch: Conectie)
Malaysian
Koneksyen (from English: Connection)
Tagalog
Koneksyon (from Spanish: Conexión)
Hope my explanation is not complicated :P
I'm Indonesian and very interested in languages
Indonesian and Malay are like British English and American English. The only difference is that the Indonesian vocabulary is heavily influenced by Dutch, while Malaysian is more influenced by English.
In practice, it is easier for Indonesians to understand Malay than that Malaysians understanding Indonesian. This is the reason why many Indo TV shows shown on Malaysian channels have subs. This also happens to Malaysian shows shown on Indonesian TV channels.
Tagalog itself could be compared to "French" to "English". There are many words in both Indonesian and Malaysian which are present and have the same meaning in Tagalog. Tagalog is also heavily influenced by Spanish.
Example:
Indonesian_____Malay_______Tagal og_____English
Kanan________ Kanan_______Kanan______Right
Kucing________ Kuching_____ Kusing______Cat
Buka_________ Buka________Buka_______Open
Bangsa________Bangsa______ Bansa______Nation
Kambing_______Kambing_____Kambin g____Goat
Example of borrowed vocabulary is like this (in this case the word: Connection):
Indonesian
Koneksi (from Dutch: Conectie)
Malaysian
Koneksyen (from English: Connection)
Tagalog
Koneksyon (from Spanish: Conexión)
Hope my explanation is not complicated :P
I'm Indonesian and very interested in languages
But I didn't know Tagalog is quite similar to our language!
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#9
(Original post by KITKAT12STEP)
I am filipino and I can tell you now it's different from Malay and Indonesian!
Tagalog is very very similar to Spanish..that's why we find it easy to both pronounce and learn spanish
I am filipino and I can tell you now it's different from Malay and Indonesian!
Tagalog is very very similar to Spanish..that's why we find it easy to both pronounce and learn spanish
Technically, the Philippine languages and Bahasa belong to the Malayo-Polynesian language family that covers from the African island of Madagascar to the Hawaiian and Easter Islands at the eastern parts of the Pacific Ocean. From Taiwan to New Zealand and Tasmania. Some studies point that the carrier of the language originally came to Taiwan (from southern China), down the Philippines, into the what would later be Indonesian and Malaysian territories, and finally into the other far off islands. Of course, the spread would not be uni-directional. Local variations that later developed in Indonesia may have reached back and affected the local languages in the Philippines.
Bahasa is said to have developed from the island of Sumatra. It soon became a mercantile language and spread far - maybe even understood in the Philippine islands during pre-Spanish period as the Indonesian who travelled with Magellan was able to converse with natives in the Philippine islands.
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#10
(Original post by KITKAT12STEP)
I am filipino and I can tell you now it's different from Malay and Indonesian!
Tagalog is very very similar to Spanish..that's why we find it easy to both pronounce and learn spanish
I am filipino and I can tell you now it's different from Malay and Indonesian!
Tagalog is very very similar to Spanish..that's why we find it easy to both pronounce and learn spanish
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#11
(Original post by KITKAT12STEP)
I am filipino and I can tell you now it's different from Malay and Indonesian!
Tagalog is very very similar to Spanish..that's why we find it easy to both pronounce and learn spanish
I am filipino and I can tell you now it's different from Malay and Indonesian!
Tagalog is very very similar to Spanish..that's why we find it easy to both pronounce and learn spanish
(Original post by marcoespanya)
Im from the Philippines and my wife is from northern part of the Philippines. tagalog has 5000 plus spanish words thats why it sounded like Spanish.
Im from the Philippines and my wife is from northern part of the Philippines. tagalog has 5000 plus spanish words thats why it sounded like Spanish.
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#12
Tagalog doesn't sound Spanish but some Tagalog words are Spanish in nature, but there is a dialect here in the Philippines which is Spanish-based creole: Chavacano. I have a friend who can speak in that dialect and it sounds similar to Spanish.
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#13
I'm a Filipino that lives in Malaysia with a Indonesian roommate. Malaysian and Indonesian are closely related but Tagalog is a little bit to far. But Cebuano and Ilonggo(Hiligaynon) which are Philippine dialects are has more similarities to Malaysian and Indonesian compared to Tagalog(Philippines National Language).
Sources: Me, I speak Cebuano, Ilonggo and Tagalog.
hope this helps
Sources: Me, I speak Cebuano, Ilonggo and Tagalog.
hope this helps
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#14
I'm a Filipino living in the US. I sometimes mistake an Indonesian for a Filipino because we have the same accent when we speak English.
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#15
(Original post by asparkyn)
'Cats' bahasa melayu nya jg 'kucing' tau, kalo 'kuching' itu kota di Malaysia
But I didn't know Tagalog is quite similar to our language!
'Cats' bahasa melayu nya jg 'kucing' tau, kalo 'kuching' itu kota di Malaysia
But I didn't know Tagalog is quite similar to our language!
Kitten in Tagalog is kuting.
Gunting (scissors) is same for Tagalog and Indonesian
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#16
(Original post by down2earth)
No no dear, Tagalog is not very very similar to Spanish. Tagalog is very similar to Indonesian, Malaysian, and other Austronesian languages. When a Filipino, Indonesian, or Malaysian is speaking in their native language the accent and language sounds identical, I can not tell the difference. All 3 siblings are similar in looks too!
Tagalog does not sound Spanish whatsoever. Strange that you say that. Tagalog sounds identical to the other 'Malay Race' languages. Very FAST and multi-syllable language, that's what I hear when either spoken language is used.
No no dear, Tagalog is not very very similar to Spanish. Tagalog is very similar to Indonesian, Malaysian, and other Austronesian languages. When a Filipino, Indonesian, or Malaysian is speaking in their native language the accent and language sounds identical, I can not tell the difference. All 3 siblings are similar in looks too!
Tagalog does not sound Spanish whatsoever. Strange that you say that. Tagalog sounds identical to the other 'Malay Race' languages. Very FAST and multi-syllable language, that's what I hear when either spoken language is used.
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#17
the base language of tagalog share a commonality of words as shared by people in the know.
i recognize words they speak in indonesian and malay because the areas are so close and linguistic develop and migration have help spread and also diverge from the original base language.
the malay and indonesian accents sound also with a strong combination of indian and pakistani accent. the intonation of the was they speak is more reminiscent of indians when they speak. when i hear indonesians and malays talk (watch you tubes indonesia's got talent) there are common words that pilipinos can pick up which have the same meaning. this is tagalog/pilipino at it's base language form -- no spanish or english words used.
the only reason people mistakenly think tagalog and spanish sound familiar or the same is the because of the spanish (and english) words people freely interchange and use
other dialects found throughout the philippines may have more commonality in more words used and familiarized with than the nationalized tagalog due to immigration and closeness to the outlying islands of indonesia and malaysia.
even have a similar commonality of looks. while indonesians and malays are more muslim in their dress and look, but similar features to pilipinos. but all regions have a high rate of mixing of DNA from immigrants and foreigners from outside south east asian and the south pacific islanders.
this is of course in my humble opinion. but empirical proof is in the malay/indoesian/tagalog pudding so to speak.
tagalog speakers watch some indonesia's got talent and compare... indonesian's/malay can watch pilipino telenovelas or check indonesian words comparitively with a tagalog dictionary.
it'll be scarey good and a pleasant surprise....
enjoy
i recognize words they speak in indonesian and malay because the areas are so close and linguistic develop and migration have help spread and also diverge from the original base language.
the malay and indonesian accents sound also with a strong combination of indian and pakistani accent. the intonation of the was they speak is more reminiscent of indians when they speak. when i hear indonesians and malays talk (watch you tubes indonesia's got talent) there are common words that pilipinos can pick up which have the same meaning. this is tagalog/pilipino at it's base language form -- no spanish or english words used.
the only reason people mistakenly think tagalog and spanish sound familiar or the same is the because of the spanish (and english) words people freely interchange and use
other dialects found throughout the philippines may have more commonality in more words used and familiarized with than the nationalized tagalog due to immigration and closeness to the outlying islands of indonesia and malaysia.
even have a similar commonality of looks. while indonesians and malays are more muslim in their dress and look, but similar features to pilipinos. but all regions have a high rate of mixing of DNA from immigrants and foreigners from outside south east asian and the south pacific islanders.
this is of course in my humble opinion. but empirical proof is in the malay/indoesian/tagalog pudding so to speak.
tagalog speakers watch some indonesia's got talent and compare... indonesian's/malay can watch pilipino telenovelas or check indonesian words comparitively with a tagalog dictionary.
it'll be scarey good and a pleasant surprise....
enjoy
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#18
I am entering this discussion without any expert knowledge, although I have visited the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia and have friends in all three countries. I came across this discussion because I was Googling the connection between Tagalog and Bahasa Melayu (and therefore, naturally, also Bahasa Indonesia). And the reason I was Googling this was because although I do not speak much Tagalog I was amazed today to see one of my Filipina friends use the word "anak" which I already knew means "son" in Malay and Indonesian. Perhaps this was just one of the many loan words, but then many languages are composed almost entirely of loan words anyway - take English, which is mainly loan words from German and French, with a few Viking words as well!
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#19
(Original post by Graham Dragon)
I am entering this discussion without any expert knowledge, although I have visited the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia and have friends in all three countries. I came across this discussion because I was Googling the connection between Tagalog and Bahasa Melayu (and therefore, naturally, also Bahasa Indonesia). And the reason I was Googling this was because although I do not speak much Tagalog I was amazed today to see one of my Filipina friends use the word "anak" which I already knew means "son" in Malay and Indonesian. Perhaps this was just one of the many loan words, but then many languages are composed almost entirely of loan words anyway - take English, which is mainly loan words from German and French, with a few Viking words as well!
I am entering this discussion without any expert knowledge, although I have visited the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia and have friends in all three countries. I came across this discussion because I was Googling the connection between Tagalog and Bahasa Melayu (and therefore, naturally, also Bahasa Indonesia). And the reason I was Googling this was because although I do not speak much Tagalog I was amazed today to see one of my Filipina friends use the word "anak" which I already knew means "son" in Malay and Indonesian. Perhaps this was just one of the many loan words, but then many languages are composed almost entirely of loan words anyway - take English, which is mainly loan words from German and French, with a few Viking words as well!
Tagalog: Isa
Bahasa Indonesia: Esa
Tagalog: Apat
Bahasa Indonesia: Empat
Tagalog: Lima
Bahasa Indonesia: Lima
Tagalog: Anim
Bahasa Indonesia: Enam
Tagalog: Sampu
Bahasa Indonesia: Sepuluh
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#20
When you strip away the foreign loan words from Bahasa Indonesia/Melayu and the various Filipino languages (Tagalog, Kapampangan, Ilocano, Bahasa Sūg, Bisaya, Waray-Waray, Ilonggo, Maranao etc) they are essentially all very similar grammatically, sound wise, but not enough to understand each other without studying it for a while. The major Filipino languages of Visayan/Bisaya, Ilocano and Tausug are much closer to Bahasa Indonesia/Malaysia than Tagalog is, and have more speakers than Tagalog, but they are all related languages. The issue when approaching this is that the older generation of Filipinos consider Spanish as "desirable/cool" and their Malayan neighbours as "other" (due to the faith difference primarily), and so try to accentuate their perceived uniqueness from them, using Spanish loan words/Catholicism/westernised aspect of pop culture as a means of a construct. The reality however is if a Filipino learnt Bahasa Indonesia/Malaysia, it would take them 6 months for even the most stubborn Filipino learner to gain full fluency, and vice versa with Indonesians/Malaysians/Bruneians learning Filipino languages. Tagalog has a lot of loan words from Spanish, but realistically it would take far longer for a Filipino to gain fluency in real Castillan Spanish, as the sounds are completely different, from the guttural "j" to the "th" sound of "c" etc and the use of language- grammar and syntax is unrelated to that of Austronesian languages like Filipino and Bahasa. Thankfully, with the accessibility of media and increased travel, Filipinos are slowly becoming aware of the underlying similarities of their languages and cultures with those of their southern neighbours, and some of them no longer define themselves or their languages by colonial constructs (as the elder generations once did).
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