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    (Original post by aliel)
    hehe..i wouldn't think that i am the only person alive who has made a decision based on anything rather logic...hey Cambridge Spies was a fantastic series. I was all too ready to apply to Cam, but after the *lil* upset i had at a Cam Openday..thought what the hell and switched to Oxford.
    I got the feeling UCL thought they were too good for me...they damn well REJECTED me :mad: I actually really liked their course, i mean really really liked their course. Oh well...
    Ok, my decision wasn't really based on logic at first either. I didn't see that series, I'm sure it must have been good. I really can't understand why you didn't go to Cambridge just because of the water thing. You could have applied to another college. *sigh* Another talent wasted... But I've heard the history department at Oxford is meant to be quite good

    Don't worry about UCL, it simply shows they don't know what's good for them Don't waste yourself on them...
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    (Original post by Lucy)
    lol was this the water thing? That was hilarious ! As for believing Cambridge is better... hopefully you'll soon start thinking otherwise
    :rolleyes: *ahem* Poor aliel is already facing brain-washing attempts by the evil Oxonians! :mad: Another soul lost...
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    (Original post by B00kwOrm)
    :rolleyes: *ahem* Poor aliel is already facing brain-washing attempts by the evil Oxonians! :mad: Another soul lost...
    I'm no longer one of the "nice people"?
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    (Original post by B00kwOrm)
    You could have applied to another college.
    That's what my friend did. She went to the open day with her mum and her mum kept bugging her to talk with one of the admission tutors for her subject. In the end she gave in and went to talk with him - after they finished their convo the tutor waited for her to leave but she just standed there like a lemon! So they were just standing there all uncomfortable until another student came along - how embarassing :eek:

    "Another talent wasted/soul lost"?!... I'm hurt
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    I must say that i really like the look of the Oxford Modern History course...but do you guys know that from October 2004 it is actually called "History" and not "Modern History". Oooooo. I know, tis very interesting Looking forward to meeting you Lucy, will stand up in our first History faculty welcome meeting* and introduce myself as "Leila aka aliel"hehe

    *if there is such a thing :confused:
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    (Original post by kildare)
    I'm no longer one of the "nice people"?
    Hmmm... I'll have to think about that one... (Just for info, my Nice People List is not made up of random people I kind of like, but of people I exchanged several pm's with and really like). That doesn't mean you're not nice or that anyone who is not on my list is fundamentally evil...
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    "Another talent wasted/soul lost"?!... I'm hurt [/QUOTE]

    Truth hurts sometimes
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    (Original post by aliel)
    I must say that i really like the look of the Oxford Modern History course...but do you guys know that from October 2004 it is actually called "History" and not "Modern History". Oooooo. I know, tis very interesting Looking forward to meeting you Lucy, will stand up in our first History faculty welcome meeting* and introduce myself as "Leila aka aliel"hehe

    *if there is such a thing :confused:
    Well, really, the course should have been called "History" from the start (it also includes several options on medieval history, as do all "History" courses (UCAS code V100). Looks like you can even do a bit of ancient history... Hmm yeah, not too bad...
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    Is it true that Oxford concentrates more on the philosphical side of law (Jurisprudence) and that Cambridge focuses more on the practical side of it?
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    also, i think the facilities for law and cambridge 'look' A LOT nicer than those at oxford...but i don't think I should really base your choice on that
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    (Original post by FlamingDeath)
    Is it true that Oxford concentrates more on the philosphical side of law (Jurisprudence) and that Cambridge focuses more on the practical side of it?
    In general thats true, but I think Oxford and Cambridge are both focused on law as an intellectual discipline rather than a practical course.
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    (Original post by Wobbles)
    If you want a really good Cambridge college for law, go to Downing. It is really is the best college for law (and about half the law professors come from downing).

    The only downside is the applicants per place ratio. I believe I read it as 118 (and I was going to apply there until I screamed when I read that figure)
    http://www.cam.ac.uk/cambuniv/ugpros...pplying02.html

    From the undergraduate prospectus (link provided), I work out the average applicants per place ratio for Law to be 5.5:1. The actual figure for Downing could well have been 11.8:1, which is more believable.
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    (Original post by AveHan)
    Oxford has a much better reputation for law. Also humanities and arts are better at Oxford. Go to Cambridge for sciences.
    I would say that Oxford and Cambridge are about equal in most of the humanities. Cambridge is better for the sciences, and Oxford has the edge when it comes to law, political science, and philosophy.
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    (Original post by oldthrashbarg)
    I would say that Oxford and Cambridge are about equal in most of the humanities. Cambridge is better for the sciences, and Oxford has the edge when it comes to law, political science, and philosophy.
    I know it isn't right to say it in this (Oxford) forum, but in terms of the course, facilities, teaching quality, etc. I would prefer Cambridge any day to the Oxford course. That said, they are still very similar and obviously the place and colleges can influence the choice between the two.

    For instance, take the course, because of the Tripos approach, Cambridge students can cover far more areas of law (and more advanced areas) as we study one area and then move on, rather than studying things and re-learning them for exams. Hence, we can do bits of restitution (in Aspects of Obligations), conflict of laws (exceptionally useful and only available at BCL level at Oxford), etc. Cambridge has a much wider range of courses available at undergraduate level.

    In terms of employment (and hence reputation), Cambridge and Oxford send similar numbers to the Bar. Cambridge out-performs Oxford in terms of sending people to the Magic Circle. The reputation of the Cambridge undergraduate course is also absolutely top-notch because of the current strength of its Faculty and because of the numbers of its graduates taking the top jobs. Cambridge students are also advantaged by the fact they have studied law that Oxford students would have to take a masters course to study.

    Academically, we out-perform Oxford in almost every league table for law, and produce more firsts than Oxford. Our facilities are second to none, with the new Normon Foster faculty housing a wonderful law library, great IT facilities and lecture theatres.

    Staff-wise, Oxford don't have the lead that they had in the 1990s at all. I will freely admit that the 'greats' were at Oxford at that time, but the Faculty at Oxford is now considerably weaker. Just consider the number of honours coming to our law Faculty; we currently have the leading lights in a number of fields!

    - Criminal: some of the acknowledged best teachers (Virgo, Miles), similarly in Criminology we have Thomas who pioneered the study of criminology and the Department (with its brand new building) remains unrivalled.
    - Constit/Admin: Forsyth (who rivals Craig and is more respected by the judiciary) and Allan (one of the leading academics); see also Dashwood for the EU perspective (who was WRITING their constitution!)
    - EU: certainly we now have the lead: Dashwood (knighted for his contribution to the EU constitution and has appeared before the ECJ in some of the most important recent cases); Barnard and Spaventa (who are amongst the most active and respected academics and wonderful teachers)
    - Private law: traditionally Oxford's greatest strength, but we're now taking the lead here as well: Andrews (who is also experienced in civil procedure and has real experience at a top commercial set), O'Sullivan and Spencer (an honorary QC for his work with teaching judges the law with the Judicial Studies Board!), Johnston (who now edits the leading student textbook on tort), Lord Mustill (and I believe soon Lord Millett), Jolowicz (the other leading name in tort), etc.
    - International: no doubt here! Lauterpacht (need I go on!), Bethlehem and Crawford are THE leading academics (and are the leading practitioners, they were lead counsel for Palestine and Israel respectively before the ICJ recently).

    I won't go on, because it won't mean a lot to non-students, but we now have a majority of the leading names in all the above areas and we have strength in important areas for future practice, eg corporate or IP.

    In other words, the maxim "Oxford wins for non-sciences" is untrue when it comes to Law, in my opinion (and that of most people who are 'in the know').
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    (Original post by jcw)
    I know it isn't right to say it in this (Oxford) forum, but in terms of the course, facilities, teaching quality, etc. I would prefer Cambridge any day to the Oxford course. That said, they are still very similar and obviously the place and colleges can influence the choice between the two.

    For instance, take the course, because of the Tripos approach, Cambridge students can cover far more areas of law (and more advanced areas) as we study one area and then move on, rather than studying things and re-learning them for exams. Hence, we can do bits of restitution (in Aspects of Obligations), conflict of laws (exceptionally useful and only available at BCL level at Oxford), etc. Cambridge has a much wider range of courses available at undergraduate level.

    In terms of employment (and hence reputation), Cambridge and Oxford send similar numbers to the Bar. Cambridge out-performs Oxford in terms of sending people to the Magic Circle. The reputation of the Cambridge undergraduate course is also absolutely top-notch because of the current strength of its Faculty and because of the numbers of its graduates taking the top jobs. Cambridge students are also advantaged by the fact they have studied law that Oxford students would have to take a masters course to study.

    Academically, we out-perform Oxford in almost every league table for law, and produce more firsts than Oxford. Our facilities are second to none, with the new Normon Foster faculty housing a wonderful law library, great IT facilities and lecture theatres.

    Staff-wise, Oxford don't have the lead that they had in the 1990s at all. I will freely admit that the 'greats' were at Oxford at that time, but the Faculty at Oxford is now considerably weaker. Just consider the number of honours coming to our law Faculty; we currently have the leading lights in a number of fields!

    - Criminal: some of the acknowledged best teachers (Virgo, Miles), similarly in Criminology we have Thomas who pioneered the study of criminology and the Department (with its brand new building) remains unrivalled.
    - Constit/Admin: Forsyth (who rivals Craig and is more respected by the judiciary) and Allan (one of the leading academics); see also Dashwood for the EU perspective (who was WRITING their constitution!)
    - EU: certainly we now have the lead: Dashwood (knighted for his contribution to the EU constitution and has appeared before the ECJ in some of the most important recent cases); Barnard and Spaventa (who are amongst the most active and respected academics and wonderful teachers)
    - Private law: traditionally Oxford's greatest strength, but we're now taking the lead here as well: Andrews (who is also experienced in civil procedure and has real experience at a top commercial set), O'Sullivan and Spencer (an honorary QC for his work with teaching judges the law with the Judicial Studies Board!), Johnston (who now edits the leading student textbook on tort), Lord Mustill (and I believe soon Lord Millett), Jolowicz (the other leading name in tort), etc.
    - International: no doubt here! Lauterpacht (need I go on!), Bethlehem and Crawford are THE leading academics (and are the leading practitioners, they were lead counsel for Palestine and Israel respectively before the ICJ recently).

    I won't go on, because it won't mean a lot to non-students, but we now have a majority of the leading names in all the above areas and we have strength in important areas for future practice, eg corporate or IP.

    In other words, the maxim "Oxford wins for non-sciences" is untrue when it comes to Law, in my opinion (and that of most people who are 'in the know').
    It obviously took you a long time to right that and you're clearly in love with Cambridge, but come on, this reads like a who's who of law http://denning.law.ox.ac.uk/members/official.phtml
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    (Original post by jcw)
    Cambridge out-performs Oxford in terms of sending people to the Magic Circle.
    Do you have proof of that? I'd think if your credentials are the same your prospects are identical whether you went to Oxford or Cambridge; it seems that virtually everyone here who got a high 2.1 in year 1 and has had good law placements who wants a MC training contract has just received / is going to get one shortly.
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    (Original post by house badger)
    It obviously took you a long time to right that and you're clearly in love with Cambridge, but come on, this reads like a who's who of law http://denning.law.ox.ac.uk/members/official.phtml
    For such a short post, it did contain a lot of errors!

    Firstly, I didn't take me long to 'right' (or even 'write') that at all. Secondly, I'm not 'in love with Cambridge' in particular and will probably be leaving Cambridge to go to Oxford in a year's time. Finally, I think most people would admit right now that it is the Cambridge Faculty list that reads like the 'who's who of law'. Of course, it might change: Oxford is going through a bit of a weak patch at the moment.
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    (Original post by jcw)
    Academically, we out-perform Oxford in almost every league table for law, and produce more firsts than Oxford.
    In the Guardian, : 1st - Oxford
    2nd - Cambridge
    http://education.guardian.co.uk/univ...217063,00.html


    In the Times, : 1st - Cambridge
    2nd - Oxford


    Care to produce any more tables?
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    (Original post by slinec)
    Care to produce any more tables?
    No, I will have to admit defeat on that point, although I would emphasise that we do produce better results (more firsts), have a better RAE score (5*A rather than 5*B - a bit surprising that Oxford did not sumibt a full field of academics to scrutiny), and Cambridge tops more general league tables where subject-specific ones aren't available.

    But, look, I didn't intend to turn this into a debate about which college is better, because it isn't worth it - I was just saying that the mantra "Oxford leads for non-sciences" cannot be simply applied for Law: Cambridge, if not leading at this precise time, is certainly equal. I just think students are mislead by thinking of Cambridge as 'science' and Oxford as 'humanities / social sciences' when it really depends on the subject (see law, english, etc)
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    (Original post by jcw)
    No, I will have to admit defeat on that point, although I would emphasise that we do produce better results (more firsts), have a better RAE score (5*A rather than 5*B - a bit surprising that Oxford did not sumibt a full field of academics to scrutiny), and Cambridge tops more general league tables where subject-specific ones aren't available.
    At the end of the day I would consider Law as vocational rather than academic - the vast vast majority of people doing Law at Oxford or Cambridge are doing it to become a good solicitor or barrister, many of whom are targetting the Magic Circle or the prestigious Inns. For this, it matters not a jot which uni has more 5*A RAE ratings. Cambridge getting more 1sts however is something that prospective applicants may want to take note of; I'd assume here its more down to the individual. If someone is prepared to work consistently hard for 3yrs they should be able to get a 1st in their Prelims and Finals - it seems more down to the ability to memorise multiple cases and terms than raw intelligence. A lot of people I know who got 1sts in Prelims and were looking at achieving a 1st in finals have now completely slacked off because their Magic Circle TC's have popped through the letterbox...
 
 
 

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