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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    IDS never made a mess of our country, Blair is in many ways.
    In what ways?
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    In what ways?
    education, crime, transport are the main ones.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    education, crime, transport are the main ones.
    The Tory party says it will sort out all those, but like Labour they wouldn't do it. They didn't do it before so I don't see how they can do it now.
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    IDS never had a chance to make a mess of the country, he couldn't even make it to the election.

    Most Tory leaders aren't idiots, but they are a bit out of touch to say the least. Although Labour is going that way these days.

    I do love Boris Johnson though.
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    (Original post by Nafisa)
    I was wondering whether anyone agrees with me with this thought as I was reminising about the past conservative leaders........

    why are they all pompous idiots....anybody who supports them could clarify this for me (if you can!)

    deeply appreciated :cool:
    and to think your a labour support - what is the party coming to? *sighs*
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    (Original post by Tinykates)
    the majority of the population? are you sure?
    You should see our previous poll on the subject. It is clear that the Conservatives and even the Lib Dems are miles ahead of Labour.
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    (Original post by Frances)
    Most Tory leaders aren't idiots, but they are a bit out of touch to say the least.
    MH isn't out of touch. He has his finger on the button

    Seriously, I reckon that Tony Blair will resign before the next election - he is too much of a liability for Labour - and the deputy PM will fill his shoes...God help us
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    In what ways?
    These ways:
    (this is my post from another thread)

    1) The Millennium Dome. Arguably one of the biggest jokes and perfect examples of lack of forward planning and foresight any Prime Minister has ever displayed. Rapidly pushed under the carpet.

    2) The examination and education systems. The disaster a couple of years ago when A Level results were drastically fiddled by our government, resulting in many students' future plans ruined. Despite arguements to the contrary, A Levels have got easier. How else do you explain the huge number of candidates achieving all A grades? With the old system, to get all As was an enormous achievement, now it's fairly commonplace.

    This in turn results in the universities being unable to descriminate between candidates as they are all equally well qualified, resulting in University admission, as many on this board have discovered to their disadvantage, has become a total lottery, particularly for the more popular courses.

    This problem is compounded by Tony Blair's policy of having 50% plus of young people going to university, resulting in even more competition for places.

    The latter policy is totally contradicted by Tony Blair's policy of university tuition fees. How can he realistically encourage the less well off of our society to go to university, when there is no way many people can afford it due to his policies? His policies also result in students leaving University with enormous debts. In the past, students left with no debt.

    His policy of encouraging more students to go to university is fundamentally wrong, as it implies that academia is preferential to other occupations, such as plumbers, builders, electricians, etc. all of which are vital to our society and should be valued as such. The result of his policy results in increased drop-out rates, with students made to feel like failures because they are not academic enough to go to university, and therefore drop out. The less academic students also spend huge amounts of money wasting their time achieving a degree which is not well respected and will not get them a better paid job anyway.

    3) The War Against Iraq. Like many people i was initially behind the war, as i trusted the government when they asserted they had evidence of weapons of mass destruction. This has since been called into question and was most probably a lie. I do not appreciate a government that lies to the citizens of this country. Do you?

    I could go on but this post is long enough already.
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    I'm not a labour supporter, but.

    1, I haven't checked up on this but I'm pretty sure that the dome project was started before labour came to power.

    2, Labour have cocked up education, there's no defending them on that.

    But I don't the torys have that one right yet. They have to fill the gap in funding that would be left by not having top up fees and abandoning the current tuition fees. Although I know they intend to reduce the number of students, they need to do more as well. I think I heard the other day that they're reviewing their tuition fee policy, so we shall see.

    3, The torys all stood up and voted for the Iraq war, may be they just believed the government evidence just like the rest of us?

    mark
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    I would agree with you on the Millennium Dome and the War on Iraq (I was against it from the start) and also possibly the tuition fees/stupid 50% target, but I don't think you can blame exam problems entirely on them. The AS Levels could have been better thought out, but if exams really have been getting easier then surely this is a long term thing. I'm sure standards didn't just suddenly fall though the bottom in 1997.

    The fact of the matter is, I just don't trust the Tories to do a better job than Labour. I'm leaning towards the Lib Dems right now, but I doubt that they're going to get in any time soon.

    And I do actually like some of the things that the Labour party have introduced. most notably the Civil partnerships for gay couples.
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    I think the Tories are seen as pompous because traditionally they have always attracted lots and lots of posh people and people from posh schools. If you were to look at their parliamentary party say 20 years ago then you would see that a lot of them would have fitted in nicely with the old Tory stereotype.

    The Millennium Dome was started by the Tories.

    The War was was 100% backed by the Tories who would have gone for any reason. There was more of an opposition by Labour than Tory.

    If any1 dislikes Labour for these reasons then don't vote Tory!

    Tories couldn't give a toss about poor people including students before, all of a sudden they've changed their tune cos they want power. That's all they have ever wanted - power.
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    (Original post by serendipity)
    The latter policy is totally contradicted by Tony Blair's policy of university tuition fees. How can he realistically encourage the less well off of our society to go to university, when there is no way many people can afford it due to his policies? His policies also result in students leaving University with enormous debts. In the past, students left with no debt.
    Have you actually read the governments white paper which shows that it is a fairer system.

    Also, students always have debt, unless you want the 5% go to uni of the 1960's.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    I think the Tories are seen as pompous because traditionally they have always attracted lots and lots of posh people and people from posh schools. If you were to look at their parliamentary party say 20 years ago then you would see that a lot of them would have fitted in nicely with the old Tory stereotype.

    The Millennium Dome was started by the Tories.

    The War was was 100% backed by the Tories who would have gone for any reason. There was more of an opposition by Labour than Tory.

    Tories couldn't give a toss about poor people including students before, all of a sudden they've changed their tune cos they want power. That's all they have ever wanted - power.
    Tottaly agree they are an opportunist government, they seem to lack any principles they stand by - they merely appease the masses.
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    It's not even a proper 'debt' like a mortgage or loan. The repayment will vary acording to your income so if you fall bellow a certain level where you can't afford it, you won't have to pay it; unline a normal loan!
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    It's not even a proper 'debt' like a mortgage or loan. The repayment will vary acording to your income so if you fall bellow a certain level where you can't afford it, you won't have to pay it; unline a normal loan!
    Exactly, the people who oppose the top up fees are usually the ones following the media ******** about it. Perhaps they should at least read the basic 'student/parent' guide to top up fees before they make comments.
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    (Original post by corey)
    Tottaly agree they are an opportunist government, they seem to lack any principles they stand by - they mere appease the masses.
    Exactly. Previously I'd always thought that the 'great' Tory party always stood firm on its beliefs etc but now they're all out of the window. Hey they've even resorted to taking out adverts in newspaper to show that they still have some beliefs! If you need to do that then a) you're desperate b) you're hiding something!
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    (Original post by corey)
    Exactly, the people who oppose the top up fees are usually the ones following the media ******** about it. Perhaps they should at least read the basic 'student/parent' guide to top up fees before they make comments.
    There is a crisis in university funding, so doing nothing is not an option. Top up fees seem to be the only workable solution at the minute, so before people criticise them they should think of an alternative?

    I'f be happy to see the back of top up fees if there's a better way of doing university funding, but I just can't see one at this moment in time

    mark
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    (Original post by serendipity)
    You should see our previous poll on the subject. It is clear that the Conservatives and even the Lib Dems are miles ahead of Labour.
    who says i support labour?
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    (Original post by woodmeister)
    There is a crisis in university funding, so doing nothing is not an option. Top up fees seem to be the only workable solution at the minute, so before people criticise them they should think of an alternative?

    I'f be happy to see the back of top up fees if there's a better way of doing university funding, but I just can't see one at this moment in time

    mark
    You mis read what I said.
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    (Original post by Tinykates)
    who says i support labour?
    No one :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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