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    (Original post by queenj)
    Most of our laws are based upon religion, especially Christian religion, so your comment is stupid to say the least, besides if we don’t base our laws on beliefs, how do we ever establish any laws? Here is an example: Theft, why is it wrong? –it is wrong because we believe it is wrong. Basically what I'm saying is: What is the difference between your belief (Theft is wrong.) and someone’s religious belief?
    For whatever reason the laws were originally laid down, the laws we have at the moment seek to provide a consensus on what is considered right or wrong by the community/country as a whole - hence the term 'Democracy'. There is no difference, or very little effective difference between someone's belief that theft is wrong because of a religion or simple logic, or that homosexuality is wrong, as long as they accept that their view doesn't make it so, and that they have no right to force their religious viewpoint (one of many, often conflicting ones) on others. What weejimmie is getting at, I feel, is more right and wrong, as opposed to legality, which you seem to equate with 'morally right' for some reason. And as he says, its not your place to judge other people on the basis of your particular religious belief, leave that for god (if you're indeed right) to sort out.

    (Original post by queenj)
    Homosexuality has been illegal in many countries for many thousands of years, it is only in the past few years that countries have legalised it, and what has it done? Nothing of value, it has only helped spread AIDS and sexual promiscuity, which has led to an explosion of paedophiles. You need to give more credit to your forefathers, who sought to have it made illegal; it hasn’t been illegal for thousands of years for nothing.
    First off, historic examples such as the ancient greeks encouraging homosexuality in the army to promote stronger bonds between them, and japanese culture, which has been accepting of homosexuality for an historically long time... its not just a recent phenomena, sorry to have to tell you. Its only new to those societies that submitted to the slightly arbitrary whims of the judeo-christian religions for hundreds of years, where a degree of civilisation is beginning to emerge. Also, "an explosion of paedophiles"? Statistics, please
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    (Original post by Israfel)
    For whatever reason the laws were originally laid down, the laws we have at the moment seek to provide a consensus on what is considered right or wrong by the community/country as a whole - hence the term 'Democracy'. There is no difference, or very little effective difference between someone's belief that theft is wrong because of a religion or simple logic, or that homosexuality is wrong, as long as they accept that their view doesn't make it so, and that they have no right to force their religious viewpoint (one of many, often conflicting ones) on others. What weejimmie is getting at, I feel, is more right and wrong, as opposed to legality, which you seem to equate with 'morally right' for some reason. And as he says, its not your place to judge other people on the basis of your particular religious belief, leave that for god (if you're indeed right) to sort out.


    First off, historic examples such as the ancient greeks encouraging homosexuality in the army to promote stronger bonds between them, and japanese culture, which has been accepting of homosexuality for an historically long time... its not just a recent phenomena, sorry to have to tell you. Its only new to those societies that submitted to the slightly arbitrary whims of the judeo-christian religions for hundreds of years, where a degree of civilisation is beginning to emerge. Also, "an explosion of paedophiles"? Statistics, please
    I said:
    "Homosexuality has been illegal in many countries for many thousands of years", not all.
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    (Original post by queenj)
    I said:
    "Homosexuality has been illegal in many countries for many thousands of years", not all.
    OK, sorry, noted. But if it's illegality not univeral, and its certainly not as all-compassing as you make out, why should we accept that "You need to give more credit to your forefathers, who sought to have it made illegal; it hasn’t been illegal for thousands of years for nothing" when its been legal and/or socially acceptable too for thousands of years. As an interesting side point to those interested, the greek tradition of homosexuality came to an end as a political measure, not a religious measure or a gradual realisation that it was somehow 'wrong'. It was noticed that in cultures, such as sparta, that encouraging it to that extent led to a steep decline in population, and so to remain strong as nations in that era of warring countries eager to take advantage of any weakness, it was made illegal.
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    (Original post by Israfel)
    OK, sorry, noted. But if it's illegality not univeral, and its certainly not as all-compassing as you make out, why should we accept that "You need to give more credit to your forefathers, who sought to have it made illegal; it hasn’t been illegal for thousands of years for nothing" when its been legal and/or socially acceptable too for thousands of years. As an interesting side point to those interested, the greek tradition of homosexuality came to an end as a political measure, not a religious measure or a gradual realisation that it was somehow 'wrong'. It was noticed that in cultures, such as sparta, that encouraging it to that extent led to a steep decline in population, and so to remain strong as nations in that era of warring countries eager to take advantage of any weakness, it was made illegal.
    Your last point sounds like as good a reason as any to make it illegal, with all the negativity that goes with homosexuality I’m even more convinced now.
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    (Original post by queenj)
    Your last point sounds like as good a reason as any to make it illegal, with all the negativity that goes with homosexuality I’m even more convinced now.
    Could you detail what sort of negativity goes with homosexuality?

    And also... homosexuals make up 10% of the population, which means that 90% are potentially reproducing. Many people choose *not* to have children for their own reasons, which is certainly not illegal, while others can't. And it should be noted that cultures such as Sparta *encouraged* homosexuality, whereas Britain doesn't, so I'm sure that it won't have the same effect.

    Homosexual couples are potentially a very good resource for fostering and adopting children who have no homes/families. Countries that have made homosexual marriage legal are doing extremely well (Scandinavia, Denmark (1989), Norway (1993), Sweden (1994), and Iceland (1996) ).

    http://slate.msn.com/id/2100884/

    The above gives you a good idea about the argument for homosexuality being accepted into society (religion aside).
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    (Original post by queenj)
    Your last point sounds like as good a reason as any to make it illegal, with all the negativity that goes with homosexuality I’m even more convinced now.
    That's nonsensical, because homosexuality is not encouraged by any government in the world today as far as I can see. And what "negativity around homosexuality"?
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    (Original post by TKR)
    That's nonsensical, because homosexuality is not encouraged by any government in the world today as far as I can see. And what "negativity around homosexuality"?


    http://www.indianexpress.com/ie/dail.../iin17031.html
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    (Original post by Mata)
    Could you detail what sort of negativity goes with homosexuality?

    And also... homosexuals make up 10% of the population, which means that 90% are potentially reproducing. Many people choose *not* to have children for their own reasons, which is certainly not illegal, while others can't. And it should be noted that cultures such as Sparta *encouraged* homosexuality, whereas Britain doesn't, so I'm sure that it won't have the same effect.

    Homosexual couples are potentially a very good resource for fostering and adopting children who have no homes/families. Countries that have made homosexual marriage legal are doing extremely well (Scandinavia, Denmark (1989), Norway (1993), Sweden (1994), and Iceland (1996) ).

    http://slate.msn.com/id/2100884/

    The above gives you a good idea about the argument for homosexuality being accepted into society (religion aside).
    Nice try:

    http://www.indianexpress.com/ie/dail.../iin17031.html
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    (Original post by queenj)
    Nice try:

    http://www.indianexpress.com/ie/dail.../iin17031.html
    Are you arguing that the birth-rate slow down is a result of the legalisation of homosexuality? If so, are you suggesting that lots of gay people had kids before it was legalised?

    MB
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    (Original post by musicbloke)
    Are you arguing that the birth-rate slow down is a result of the legalisation of homosexuality? If so, are you suggesting that lots of gay people had kids before it was legalised?

    MB
    I’m saying homosexuality is a perversion, and legalising it suggests it is good and right to be homosexual, people are becoming more and more perverse. Homosexuality can be avoided if people are not so perverse. The fact that our population is dwindling is due to the ever increasing perverse and disgusting nature of our society. This is extended to abortion and contraception, contraception breeds sexual promiscuity and that in turn makes people gay, not before they turn bisexual. Europe has become a perverse continent this is evident in the sudden billion dollar porn industry. The industry that was non profitable 30 years ago is now a $10 billion industry.

    That speaks volumes.
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    contraception breeds sexual promiscuity and that in turn makes people gay
    How exactly is this the case?
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    (Original post by zooropa)
    How exactly is this the case?

    The more you can have sex consequence free means the more you will do it, that means the more you will do it the more likely you will become use to that type of sex, so you try different ways in order to get the same satisfaction. Eventually a straight person will only get satisfaction from the same sex, the process is gradual and they will become bisexual first. If every time you had sex you risk pregnancy then you will not do it so often. Although watching porn has the same effect, it can cause you to become gay merely by viewing it, since it is lust that is the primary catalyst.
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    Queenj: why is homosexuality a "perversion"? After all, any thing except "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am" sex purely for the purpose of breeding must count as a perversion by your views. Why is homosexuality a perversion of "normal" sexuality whereas using your fingers- developed for very different reasons- to type on a computer keyboard isn't a perversion of the natural uses of your fingers, such as grooming yourself and others? What is your source for the effects of pornography? Homosexuals don't watch heterosexual pornography because it doesn't interest them or vice-versa, so they aren't influenced by it.
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    (Original post by queenj)
    Although watching porn has the same effect, it can cause you to become gay merely by viewing it, since it is lust that is the primary catalyst.
    Many bisexuals admit that they practice bi-sexuality because they prefer to experience, what they consider a more hedonistic life-style.

    Could it be purely lust that would cause people to indulge in exclusively homosexual sex though? :confused:
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    (Original post by queenj)
    The more you can have sex consequence free means the more you will do it, that means the more you will do it the more likely you will become use to that type of sex, so you try different ways in order to get the same satisfaction. Eventually a straight person will only get satisfaction from the same sex, the process is gradual and they will become bisexual first. If every time you had sex you risk pregnancy then you will not do it so often. Although watching porn has the same effect, it can cause you to become gay merely by viewing it, since it is lust that is the primary catalyst.
    So gays are more horny than straights?

    We don't know the exact causes of homosexuality. So to state that excessive sex would "turn people gay" is ludicrous and evidently unsubstantiated.

    Many straight people are "promiscous" but don't turn gay.
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    Queenj: why is homosexuality a "perversion"? After all, any thing except "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am" sex purely for the purpose of breeding must count as a perversion by your views. Why is homosexuality a perversion of "normal" sexuality whereas using your fingers- developed for very different reasons- to type on a computer keyboard isn't a perversion of the natural uses of your fingers, such as grooming yourself and others? What is your source for the effects of pornography? Homosexuals don't watch heterosexual pornography because it doesn't interest them or vice-versa, so they aren't influenced by it.
    The effects of sex are similar to drugs, we take drugs to fix problems, there is nothing wrong with using drugs and there is nothing wrong with using sex to procreate, after all that is what it is for, but some people abuse drugs and take it solely for pleasure, and drugs have mind altering effects, and so does sex and that is often abused too. One of the consequences of too much sex is a mind altering effect, hence homosexuality.

    Ecstasy has mind-altering effects and since sex is a form of intense ecstasy you ought to expect mind-altering effects too, so it is obvious really, isn’t it? Do you really think that you can use sex very regularly in a way that is unnatural, (without ever conceiving because of contraception) and expect no side effects?

    Come on now!
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    (Original post by queenj)
    The effects of sex are similar to drugs, we take drugs to fix problems, there is nothing wrong with using drugs and there is nothing wrong with using sex to procreate, after all that is what it is for, but some people abuse drugs and take it solely for pleasure, and drugs have mind altering effects, and so does sex and that is often abused too. One of the consequences of too much sex is a mind altering effect, hence homosexuality.

    Ecstasy has mind-altering effects and since sex is a form of intense ecstasy you ought to expect mind-altering effects too, so it is obvious really, isn’t it? Do you really think that you can use sex very regularly in a way that is unnatural, (without ever conceiving because of contraception) and expect no side effects?

    Come on now!
    Don't tell me, you get hair on the palms of your hands as well as an altered mind. Again, what evidence do you have that "too much sex" has mind-changing effects? The evolutionary reason why sex is enjoyable is to cause people to have sex and so procreate: however, as I pointed out, if you were to apply that logically, sex would be nasty, brutish and short. We enjoy sex for entirely normal reasons and doing something we enjoy because we enjoy it is an entirely normal thing to do, if the only justification you will accept for behaviour is normality.
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    Don't tell me, you get hair on the palms of your hands as well as an altered mind. Again, what evidence do you have that "too much sex" has mind-changing effects? The evolutionary reason why sex is enjoyable is to cause people to have sex and so procreate: however, as I pointed out, if you were to apply that logically, sex would be nasty, brutish and short. We enjoy sex for entirely normal reasons and doing something we enjoy because we enjoy it is an entirely normal thing to do, if the only justification you will accept for behaviour is normality.

    If we’re to gain no pleasure from sex, we sure as hell would be extinct, who would want to put their penis in the vagina of a woman if there was no satisfaction other then pregnancy? No one.

    It is enjoyable as a means to get us to do it, and the reason that we do it is to procreate, that is a fact. Why is it, in a society obsessed with sex, are we struggling to maintain a sustainable population? Never in our history have we had a problem with a sustainable population, and if we did it was because of disease or some other unfortunate event.

    And what do you mean there are no side effects from sex? Are you already insane? I challenge you to have sex every day for the next year and see if you are not insane before the year is out; use your hand if necessary.
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    Having sex excessively could be a symptom of sex addiction.

    However, to some lots of sex could be considered normal, if that person has a high sex drive.

    You still haven't demonstrated how excessive sex leads to homosexuality. What are the psychological or physiological processes involved in such a change?
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    (Original post by zooropa)
    Having sex excessively could be a symptom of sex addiction.

    However, to some lots of sex could be considered normal, if that person has a high sex drive.

    You still haven't demonstrated how excessive sex leads to homosexuality. What are the psychological or physiological processes involved in such a change?
    Not necessarily because of excessive sex, read the post again.
 
 
 
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