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Is It Because I'm Black?..no..im Being Serious watch

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    (Original post by timeofyourlife)
    So I suppose Bristol and Cambridge didn't like the colour of your skin, but Nottingham and Edinburgh were more than happy to give you offers :rolleyes:
    Exactly. Some people are just bad losers.
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    (Original post by *dave*)
    Ive still yet to turn into a Tory ;-)
    its certainly not a condition.
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    (Original post by serendipity)
    Is that an average of 20% at cambridge or at all universities?
    It's obviously more difficult for anyone to get a 1st at Oxbridge than anyone else, because there is more competition, so i'm not quite sure what your saying.
    % getting 1sts at Cambridge
    Blacks - 3.1%, Whites - 21%, Indians - 23.3%
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    is that a can of Quotas by any chance?
    3 Bangladeshis and 4 Caribbean students in a year of 2940 students is evidence that quotas (rightfully) don't exist.
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    (Original post by *dave*)
    Exactly. Some people are just bad losers.
    Unfortunately true.
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    (Original post by Jools)
    % getting 1sts at Cambridge
    Blacks - 3.1%, Whites - 21%, Indians - 23.3%
    They can't discriminate on degrees jools - so i'm not sure what point you're making. Perhaps Indians at Cambridge work harder than everyone else there?
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    (Original post by *dave*)
    Im not being racist, but why are excuses continually being implied.

    Boys grades at high school are worse than girls, but that isnt blamed on sexism, and boys being discriminated against.

    The blame is that on the whole, boys are worse at exams than girls. SIMPLE.
    Yes, and the question that needs to be looked at is why. As a result people look into why boys do worse than girls, with conclusions including peer pressure, greater reluctance at coursework etc. So why do black students evidently do so much worse at Cambridge, although entering with the same grades and (hopefully) selected on basis of merit?
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    (Original post by Jools)
    % getting 1sts at Cambridge
    Blacks - 3.1%, Whites - 21%, Indians - 23.3%
    These figures prove my point above and beyond what I could have come up with. The fact that indian students do better than white students, SHOWS that there is no racism in the system. If it was purely down to race, in a white society (which Britain is) Indians would do worse than Whites.

    Its nothing to do with racism. Maybe black students dont work as hard as indian students. I dont know, Ive never been to university to find out, but its certainly not racism because Indians would become victims too if it was.
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    (Original post by serendipity)
    They can't discriminate on degrees jools - so i'm not sure what point you're making. Perhaps Indians at Cambridge work harder than everyone else there?
    I'm not saying they do discriminate on degrees, I'm highlighting an eye-raising stat that's all.
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    (Original post by Jools)
    I'm not saying they do discriminate on degrees, I'm highlighting an eye-raising stat that's all.
    That you were. It does make food for thought.
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    Black culture (especially American Black culture) promotes anti-authority feelings, anti-social behaviour etc. You only have to listen to the lyrics on 50 cents records to find this out. Maybe this leads to higher crime rates amongst blacks, poorer performance in education and ultimately lower salaries, of which these are all facts.
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    (Original post by *dave*)
    Its nothing to do with racism. Maybe black students dont work as hard as indian students. I dont know, Ive never been to university to find out, but its certainly not racism because Indians would become victims too if it was.
    As one of my previous articles suggested, racism in the university selection process is minimal. However there's alarming contrasts between different groups which needs explaining and tackling, possibly in the earlier stages of education.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    its certainly not a condition.
    Are you sure? Im sure you wouldnt be happy if a 'member of the club' started criticising Michael Howards joke I Believe 'votewinner'
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    (Original post by Jools)
    As one of my previous articles suggested, racism in the university selection process is minimal. However there's alarming contrasts between different groups which needs explaining and tackling, possibly in the earlier stages of education.
    So you agree that the threadstarters idea of being rejected 'cos he was black' is yet again using the race card as an excuse for failure?
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    (Original post by *dave*)
    So you agree that the threadstarters idea of being rejected 'cos he was black' is yet again using the race card as an excuse for failure?
    100%.

    However I understand that when people are dismayed at rejection it's easy to start playing the blame game. Within 5 minutes last fortnight on MSN one person said "If I was black I'd have been accepted" and "If I was white I'd have been accepted" to me regarding their Ox rejection. There's the similar arguments "It's cos I'm from a state school" and "It's cos I'm from a private school"...
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    (Original post by Jools)
    100%.

    However I understand that when people are dismayed at rejection it's easy to start playing the blame game. Within 5 minutes last fortnight on MSN one person said "If I was black I'd have been accepted" and "If I was white I'd have been accepted" to me regarding their Ox rejection. There's the similar arguments "It's cos I'm from a state school" and "It's cos I'm from a private school"...
    Ok fair points, but aren't we forgetting something. Universities simply can't afford claims like racism being involved with their selection process. It just wouldn't go down well at all. So I think it is fair to say that the rejections would be on academic talent, or lack there of. Wouldn't you agree?
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    (Original post by Sire)
    Ok fair points, but aren't we forgetting something. Universities simply can't afford claims like racism being involved with their selection process. It just wouldn't go down well at all. So I think it is fair to say that the rejections would be on academic talent, or lack there of. Wouldn't you agree?
    Yes, but people think that to combat accusations of 'racism' they would adopt positive discrimination, but the stats suggest this is far from the case. Rejections are based on the tutor thinking they're not worthy of the place - a combination of lack of academic potential, enthusiasm towards the subject, if they're unlikely to make the most of university life etc.
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    pause 4 thought.

    the oxbridge admissions system is said to work due to the grades that the candidates they select, get, after 3/4 years at the uni.

    but, if indians r getting a higher percentage of 1sts than whites, then why is there clear bias towards whites in the oxbridge process?

    i am not sayng that because indians get a higher % of 1sts, therefore let loads of indians in, because after all it is a british university, but i am saying, the % of indians getting in out of all indians who apply, is way less than that of whites.

    but if indians r gettin more 1sts, then surely dont these 2 statistics contradict?

    if the stats showed that a higher % of whites got 1sts than any other ethnicty, then perhaps there is more justification, but in terms of indians that is quite clearly not the case.

    anyway, on a different note, does this mean that u r competing against the applicants of ur own race who apply? it just seems like if only 8% or wateva, blacks, get into oxbridge, (i cant remember figure) then it sort of categorizes people into competing against "other blacks" etc.

    thats the impression i get from these stats.
    e.g.) "ohhh, blacks dont get as many 1sts as whites......"
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    (Original post by bono)
    pause 4 thought.

    the oxbridge admissions system is said to work due to the grades that the candidates they select, get, after 3/4 years at the uni.

    but, if indians r getting a higher percentage of 1sts than whites, then why is there clear bias towards whites in the oxbridge process?

    i am not sayng that because indians get a higher % of 1sts, therefore let loads of indians in, because after all it is a british university, but i am saying, the % of indians getting in out of all indians who apply, is way less than that of whites.

    but if indians r gettin more 1sts, then surely dont these 2 statistics contradict?

    if the stats showed that a higher % of whites got 1sts than any other ethnicty, then perhaps there is more justification, but in terms of indians that is quite clearly not the case.

    anyway, on a different note, does this mean that u r competing against the applicants of ur own race who apply? it just seems like if only 8% or wateva, blacks, get into oxbridge, (i cant remember figure) then it sort of categorizes people into competing against "other blacks" etc.

    thats the impression i get from these stats.
    e.g.) "ohhh, blacks dont get as many 1sts as whites......"




    I think this just goes to show that you can do just about anything with statistics; "lies, damn lies, and statistics"

    You can read absolutely anything into this.

    Couldn't it mean for example that the majority of Indians that apply to Cambridge aren't as good applicants as the majority of whites but those who are, and get accepted, are actually better students than whites?

    That to me is logically what these statistics suggest but it's easier to cry "foul play" and say there is a white bias.

    Why do we have to believe that if 3% of the population are Indian, then the number of applications and admissions to Cambridge should reflect that, and the number of 1st's awarded should reflect that of white, black, green, or orange students?

    I dare say that within the medical community there are proportionally more Indian doctors than there should be. What are we saying.......that medical colleges have a bias towards recruiting Indian med students? Of course not.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I think this just goes to show that you can do just about anything with statistics; "lies, damn lies, and statistics"

    You can read absolutely anything into this.

    Couldn't it mean for example that the majority of Indians that apply to Cambridge aren't as good applicants as the majority of whites but those who are, and get accepted, are actually better students than whites?

    That to me is logically what these statistics suggest but it's easier to cry "foul play" and say there is a white bias.

    Why do we have to believe that if 3% of the population are Indian, then the number of applications and admissions to Cambridge should reflect that, and the number of 1st's awarded should reflect that of white, black, green, or orange students?

    I dare say that within the medical community there are proportionally more Indian doctors than there should be. What are we saying.......that medical colleges have a bias towards recruiting Indian med students? Of course not.
    but the thing is, on stats, white people do tend to get better grades than say blacks/indians or other ethnic groups in the uk, therefore it does make sense that of course universities will have far more white people - it is england after all what do you expect!

    i am just saying, when u compare some stats it does seem interesting.

    and yes, i do agree - from the stats, it says "on average, the indian applicant is not quite as good as the white applicant, hence why more whites hav been accepted, although the indians who r accepted, are generally quite superb - look at the % of 1sts."

    but end of the day, i dont read much into this.

    what i say is "every person who walks into that room is different."
 
 
 
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