History of Warfare Discussion.

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4Ed
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#41
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#41
(Original post by JSM)
we drive on the left as it means your sword hands meet in the middle when you draw weapons. And Napolean made the continent drive on the right as he said there was no need for weapons as it was united under his rule.
There's some truth in that, but not completely, according to this site... Driving on the left/right
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Sire
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#42
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#42
(Original post by 4Ed)
well according to the Cornwell books, the Baker rifles used then already contained the seven spiralled grooves that 'gripped' the bullet and made it far more accurate than a smoothbore musket.


Arrows also have a longer range, and when fired en masse, would be virtually impossible to dodge, and would have a demoralising effect on the enemy. Although it is also mentions that longbowmen needed to be trained from young - 6-8 years old to be a good archer.

When were percussion caps (enabling guns to be fired in wet weather) introduced, and how did they work?
Not sure about the percussion caps, but I think there was some mention of them in the Battle of Blenheim. Uhmm Malborough - 1704 I think. I'd have to look that up though.
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JSM
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#43
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#43
(Original post by 2776)
Spartans were not really inventive in their ways of fighting. My classic teacher taught me that once the Greeks leart that it could add an extra row on the right hand side of the phalanx, it beat the spartans easily, as the phalanx would always turn to the left, and staright into the calvary.

The Spartans fought 3 times, but lost in each battle due to the new tactic.

Also their children would be taught to steal/kill from a young age as to harden them up. A few sheep/farmers would not go amiss in those days.

all the greeks knew that, that was why your strongest men were on the left hand side of the phalanx as they were not protected by their neighbours shield. The aim was to overlap but if you overlaped without any troops behind it was pointless as you would break, that was the difficult part, getting the balance right.

Steal/kill, they killed slaves, the metics and they had to steal in order to feed themselves at a young age, at least that was what contemporary athenian historians recorded (maybe sensationalised as they were captivated by the spartans).
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Sire
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#44
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#44
While you're all here.
Blitzkrieg - Lightning War.
Invented by the British for use on the Germans in WW1
Forgotten by the British between the wars.
Used by the Germans in WW2 to great effect.

Why was it forgotten? Why did it take an Australian to fully appreciate the weaknesses of Blitzkrieg in 1941, nearly two years after the beginning of hostilities? What the hell happened? I've always been curious as to why someone didn't think 'hey ole chap, doesn't that look mighty familiar to you?'
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JSM
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#45
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#45
(Original post by 4Ed)
well according to the Cornwell books, the Baker rifles used then already contained the seven spiralled grooves that 'gripped' the bullet and made it far more accurate than a smoothbore musket.


Arrows also have a longer range, and when fired en masse, would be virtually impossible to dodge, and would have a demoralising effect on the enemy. Although it is also mentions that longbowmen needed to be trained from young - 6-8 years old to be a good archer.

When were percussion caps (enabling guns to be fired in wet weather) introduced, and how did they work?
baker rifles were not widely spread, for most of our empire the majority oif our troops used a smoothbore musket. Arrows would have been demoralising and quite capable of downing your opponents. To be truly effective and develop the strength you do need to start around 7-8, i think.
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JSM
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#46
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#46
(Original post by 4Ed)
There's some truth in that, but not completely, according to this site... Driving on the left/right
well napolean started the trend of driving on the left for some reason, we can only specualte
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JSM
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Sire)
While you're all here.
Blitzkrieg - Lightning War.
Invented by the British for use on the Germans in WW1
Forgotten by the British between the wars.
Used by the Germans in WW2 to great effect.

Why was it forgotten? Why did it take an Australian to fully appreciate the weaknesses of Blitzkrieg in 1941, nearly two years after the beginning of hostilities? What the hell happened? I've always been curious as to why someone didn't think 'hey ole chap, doesn't that look mighty familiar to you?'
well we used blitzkrieg to attempt to break a stalemate whereas the germans used it without warning. There are some parallels, but remember a lot of people died in the 1st world war, so maybe everyoine had forgotten . What was the name of the Australian and what did he think its weaknesses were.
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4Ed
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Sire)
While you're all here.
Blitzkrieg - Lightning War.
Invented by the British for use on the Germans in WW1
Forgotten by the British between the wars.
Used by the Germans in WW2 to great effect.

Why was it forgotten? Why did it take an Australian to fully appreciate the weaknesses of Blitzkrieg in 1941, nearly two years after the beginning of hostilities? What the hell happened? I've always been curious as to why someone didn't think 'hey ole chap, doesn't that look mighty familiar to you?'
so in that case, was the propoganda machine another foreign invention that Rudolf Hess successfully adopted?
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Sire
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#49
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#49
(Original post by JSM)
well we used blitzkrieg to attempt to break a stalemate whereas the germans used it without warning. There are some parallels, but remember a lot of people died in the 1st world war, so maybe everyoine had forgotten . What was the name of the Australian and what did he think its weaknesses were.
The Australian was the commander in charge of the Tobruk garrison in 1941. Tobruk wasn't taken until 1942, by which time it was vastly under strength and if Rommel hadn't taken it, many people would have been surprised. The trick was to realise that once the tanks had broken through did not mean the battle was lost. Tanks can become caught behind lines quite easily, it is the infantry coming up after the tanks that matter. Also tanks, at least back then without night vision etc, were very susceptible to attack at night.
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JSM
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Sire)
The Australian was the commander in charge of the Tobruk garrison in 1941. Tobruk wasn't taken until 1942, by which time it was vastly under strength and if Rommel hadn't taken it, many people would have been surprised. The trick was to realise that once the tanks had broken through did not mean the battle was lost. Tanks can become caught behind lines quite easily, it is the infantry coming up after the tanks that matter. Also tanks, at least back then without night vision etc, were very susceptible to attack at night.
tobruk - that was with rommel in africa, and the siege in which they used anti aircraft guns against the tanks and the Royal Navy evacuated part or something. Well blitzkrieg also has parachutes and other fast forms of attacks. The wierdest thing i found out, was that at its peak only about 50% of the german army was motorised. Tanks also had less armour on the back.
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Sire
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#51
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#51
(Original post by 4Ed)
so in that case, was the propoganda machine another foreign invention that Rudolf Hess successfully adopted?
propaganda is as old as the hills, though I'd love to know where it actually originated. I know that Xerxes of Persia used it by burying all by 1000 of his fallen men after Thermopylae. This was to trick people into believing he hadn't lost such an extraordinary number. It failed though, and when it became common knowledge, it certainly didn't serve him well.
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GH
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Sire)
The Australian was the commander in charge of the Tobruk garrison in 1941. Tobruk wasn't taken until 1942, by which time it was vastly under strength and if Rommel hadn't taken it, many people would have been surprised. The trick was to realise that once the tanks had broken through did not mean the battle was lost. Tanks can become caught behind lines quite easily, it is the infantry coming up after the tanks that matter. Also tanks, at least back then without night vision etc, were very susceptible to attack at night.
Which reminded me of the Russian "surprise" weapon. It was dogs strapped with anti tank bombs. They fed the dogs underneath a tank, as to acclimatise it with the thought of food and can find it underneath a tank.

Unlickuly the Germans used petrol and the Russians used diesel. Guess which one the dogs went for? after one battle, the dog kamikzae patrol was abolished.
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4Ed
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Sire)
propaganda is as old as the hills, though I'd love to know where it actually originated. I know that Xerxes of Persia used it by burying all by 1000 of his fallen men after Thermopylae. This was to trick people into believing he hadn't lost such an extraordinary number. It failed though, and when it became common knowledge, it certainly didn't serve him well.
fair enough.

Although someone must have been the first to start using the radio transmitter as a broadcasting tool for propoganda. Previous to that it was probably all word of mouth./
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JSM
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#54
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#54
(Original post by 2776)
Which reminded me of the Russian "surprise" weapon. It was dogs strapped with anti tank bombs. They fed the dogs underneath a tank, as to acclimatise it with the thought of food and can find it underneath a tank.

Unlickuly the Germans used petrol and the Russians used diesel. Guess which one the dogs went for? after one battle, the dog kamikzae patrol was abolished.
i read about that in some book written by a german survivor
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Sire
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#55
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#55
(Original post by JSM)
tobruk - that was with rommel in africa, and the siege in which they used anti aircraft guns against the tanks and the Royal Navy evacuated part or something. Well blitzkrieg also has parachutes and other fast forms of attacks. The wierdest thing i found out, was that at its peak only about 50% of the german army was motorised. Tanks also had less armour on the back.
Quite right. Not sure if it even reached 50% to be honest. Parachute regiments weren't used all that often in Blitzkrieg though, yet when these 'fallschirmjager' did drop, they were usualy devastatingly effective.
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Sire
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#56
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#56
(Original post by 2776)
Which reminded me of the Russian "surprise" weapon. It was dogs strapped with anti tank bombs. They fed the dogs underneath a tank, as to acclimatise it with the thought of food and can find it underneath a tank.

Unlickuly the Germans used petrol and the Russians used diesel. Guess which one the dogs went for? after one battle, the dog kamikzae patrol was abolished.
I've never heard of that actually, sounds like something they would have done though. Love the end result. Poor pups though.
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JSM
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Sire)
Quite right. Not sure if it even reached 50% to be honest. Parachute regiments weren't used all that often in Blitzkrieg though, yet when these 'fallschirmjager' did drop, they were usualy devastatingly effective.
like in Crete, although it did require the Luftwaffe to shoot up the airport and end up crash landing on the field as they ran out of fuel and decided it was more important to take it.
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JSM
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Sire)
I've never heard of that actually, sounds like something they would have done though. Love the end result. Poor pups though.
or the human mine clearers,
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Sire
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#59
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#59
(Original post by JSM)
or the human mine clearers,
ah yes. that was punishment detail usually wasn't it. If you lived through it once, you only had to do it another 19 times or something. I like what the Russians did to some pilots. They all had to do a certain number of missions before getting leave, but punishment was being forced to fly from dawn to dusk, averaging some 6-7 missions/sorties per day until their 20 was up, and to make it better, this didn't count to their official total for leave qualification. nasty but effective.
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JSM
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Sire)
ah yes. that was punishment detail usually wasn't it. If you lived through it once, you only had to do it another 19 times or something. I like what the Russians did to some pilots. They all had to do a certain number of missions before getting leave, but punishment was being forced to fly from dawn to dusk, averaging some 6-7 missions/sorties per day until their 20 was up, and to make it better, this didn't count to their official total for leave qualification. nasty but effective.
probably but they also had communist officials, to shoot you if you retreated, behind the lines
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