Senior royal plotted Diana's death

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MadNatSci
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#61
Report 16 years ago
#61
(Original post by yawn1)
Why should you be 'killed' for expressing the sentiments of others whose opinions have been expressed in print. We do not have the benefit of persuasion of the masses via the media. But should we espouse their viewpoints as more valid than others simply becuase they are in print?
Let's face it - none of us here know whether the acts of ?kindness carried out by whoever are genuinely motivated, no more than the likes of Christopher Hitchens & co. do. It is all based on personal stance. We could say that those who denigrate Diana and Mother Theresa have their own agendas. Whether we are persuaded to come down on either side depends entirely upon our own outlook. There are those who are cynical and those who take people at face judgement. Both types will NEVER agree

It's oh-so-true that both sides will never agree! Many people, however, believe absolutely in the good nature of both Mother Teresa and Diana and I was a little worried people might shout at me (metaphorically anyway) for expressing a different view... I felt it needed to be expressed though, at least on the Mother Teresa front, for the sake of balance.

lala - Hitchens does rather like to speak his mind! But on the other hand, if it's true that Mother Teresa has mob links and has committed fraud amongst other things (and yes, this has been said in the past), then don't you think somebody should speak up about it? Or should she be sainted anyway? Should some good actions make up for some very bad ones? Being anti-abortion is the least of the charges in that article..

One of Mother Teresa’s volunteers in Calcutta described her “Home for the Dying” as resembling photos of concentration camps such as Belsen. No chairs, just stretcher beds. Virtually no medical care or painkillers beyond aspirin, and a refusal to take a 15-year-old boy to a hospital. Hitchens adds, “Bear in mind that Mother Teresa’s global income is more than enough to outfit several first class clinics in Bengal. The decision not to do so... is a deliberate one.

The point is not the honest relief of suffering, but the promulgation of a cult based on death and suffering and subjection.”

Then Hitchens notes that Mother Teresa “has checked into some of the finest and costliest clinics and hospitals in the West during her bouts with heart trouble and old age.”
As for the royals - personal opinion only obviously - they're one of the most dysfunctional families you could possibly imagine. Charles was just as much to blame for the breakdown of his marriage as Diana and he's probably as screwed up as she is, although I wouldn't think he'd plot her assassination; it's difficult to say, obviously, as we don't actually know these people but I wouldn't think it was the sort of thing he'd do... I could believe it of Philip though The Queen I think was probably not a very good mother but she has a very strong sense of duty and for that I admire her. As for Wills and Harry: Harry seems like a bit of a layabout to me, but Wills' smile is too lovely for me to denigrate him Nah, seriously, to me he seems OK and remarkably balanced considering he's been in the limelight all his life...

(And yet despite all this I like having a royal family...)
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lala
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#62
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#62
(Original post by MadNatSci)
lala - Hitchens does rather like to speak his mind! But on the other hand, if it's true that Mother Teresa has mob links and has committed fraud amongst other things (and yes, this has been said in the past), then don't you think somebody should speak up about it? Or should she be sainted anyway? Should some good actions make up for some very bad ones? Being anti-abortion is the least of the charges in that article..
...
I'll say!
Well I have never seen any conclusive evidence about the 'mob' links and fraud so I cant really say anything much useful there. I will say that I wouldnt lose any sleep if it turns out that some of the money she used to do such good was from the mafia though.
Howver, I did a search and saw some stuff by the dear Hitchens on Mother Teresa, and actually the first thing he mentioned in this interview with some secularist society was her opposition to abortion, which rather suggests he views it as important. Evidently nobody who disagrees with him on the issue or is in fact at all religious is capable of a good work. I got the distinct impression some of his criticism is motvated by that. The one term I ever heard anyone else criticise her it was someone who is deeply anti-religious, interestingly. One thing I noticed was something about her home for the dying- Hitchens said that if you werent dying, she hadnt much to offer you. Well of course not, not in a sodding hospice! Wtf did he expect I wonder?
I also object to being moralised at by someone who, despite all he says about Mother Teresa, is quite happy to earn his living off her back. Perhaps when he has devoted his life to doing what he could to alleviate human misery (and whether or not you think she went about it wrong, that is wha she did) then I'll take him a little more seriously.
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MadNatSci
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#63
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#63
(Original post by lala)
I'll say!
Well I have never seen any conclusive evidence about the 'mob' links and fraud so I cant really say anything much useful there. I will say that I wouldnt lose any sleep if it turns out that some of the money she used to do such good was from the mafia though.
Howver, I did a search and saw some stuff by the dear Hitchens on Mother Teresa, and actually the first thing he mentioned in this interview with some secularist society was her opposition to abortion, which rather suggests he views it as important. Evidently nobody who disagrees with him on the issue or is in fact at all religious is capable of a good work. I got the distinct impression some of his criticism is motvated by that. The one term I ever heard anyone else criticise her it was someone who is deeply anti-religious, interestingly. One thing I noticed was something about her home for the dying- Hitchens said that if you werent dying, she hadnt much to offer you. Well of course not, not in a sodding hospice! Wtf did he expect I wonder?
I also object to being moralised at by someone who, despite all he says about Mother Teresa, is quite happy to earn his living off her back. Perhaps when he has devoted his life to doing what he could to alleviate human misery (and whether or not you think she went about it wrong, that is wha she did) then I'll take him a little more seriously.

OK, mob links is an exaggeration on my part and I apologise. But she did receive a large amount of stolen money from one Charles Keating. She pleaded for clemency for this man and was sent a letter from a deputy district attorney (a Mr Turley) detailing the case and asking her to return the money to the people it was stolen from:

After referring to Keating's conviction for defrauding 17 individuals of $900,000 Turley concluded: "You urge Judge Ito to look into his heart -- as he sentences Charles Keating -- and do what Jesus would do. I submit the same challenge to you. Ask yourself what Jesus would do if he were given the fruits of a crime; what Jesus would do if he were in possession of money which had been stolen; what Jesus would do if he were being exploited by a thief to ease his conscience? I submit that Jesus would promptly and unhesitatingly return the stolen property to its rightful owners. You should do the same. You have been given money by Mr Keating that he has been convicted of stealing by fraud. Do not permit him the `indulgence' he desires. Do not keep the money. Return it to those who worked for it and earned it! If you contact me I will put you in direct contact with the rightful owners of the property now in your possession."
The letter was never answered.
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yawn1
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#64
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#64
How the heck did a question about the accusation that Prince Charles was 'planning a car accident' to Princess Diana become an attack on Mother Teresa who incidentally devoted her life to caring for the dying, unloved and unwanted.
Much as a certain section of society want to dirty her memory (as they do funnily enough to Diana's as well) there are millions of people who see her as a saintly woman.
Still, Jesus warned that those who followed Him would be persecuted!
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JSM
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#65
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#65
(Original post by yawn1)
How the heck did a question about the accusation that Prince Charles was 'planning a car accident' to Princess Diana become an attack on Mother Teresa who incidentally devoted her life to caring for the dying, unloved and unwanted.
Much as a certain section of society want to dirty her memory (as they do funnily enough to Diana's as well) there are millions of people who see her as a saintly woman.
Still, Jesus warned that those who followed Him would be persecuted!
because like other 'idols' Diana, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, she was not squeaky clean and personally to be deified i think she should be.
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yawn1
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#66
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#66
(Original post by JSM)
because like other 'idols' Diana, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, she was not squeaky clean and personally to be deified i think she should be.
All these people you have mentioned have really suffered terribly during their lives, one way or another. Does that not purge them? What they have in common is a love for their fellow men.
Saints are not 'deified'. They can never be God.
Canonisation is 'a solemn proclamation that the person practised heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God's grace'.
Now, what about Charles?
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lala
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#67
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#67
(Original post by MadNatSci)
OK, mob links is an exaggeration on my part and I apologise. But she did receive a large amount of stolen money from one Charles Keating. She pleaded for clemency for this man and was sent a letter from a deputy district attorney (a Mr Turley) detailing the case and asking her to return the money to the people it was stolen from:



The letter was never answered.
Where did you read this information? Is it from a reliable source, and do you have a link?
I for one do not have much of a problem with 'dirty money' being put to good use. 'What would Jesus do?' is always arguable, but I would think theres more then a chance that he'd have given it to the poor, never having been a great one for supporting the rich or promoting personal property. Of course, thats debatable though.
However, thats not the major point. I find it astounding not only that someone has made it their life's work to criticise just about everything she did (including the way she dressed!) but also to profiting from her name, which is what this man is doing. In fact usually I'm pretty distrustful of any research by someone who decides what they think first and finds evidence to prove it second. See, she opposed divorce, and that means that she couldnt possibly ever have done anything worthwhile, what with being religious and all. That seems to be the main thrust behind this man's argument.
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deadflower1984
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Cate)
That is totally not fair. She helped a lot of people.
And so do ordinary people every day, but they don't have all this fuss about them!
The woman is dead, so it was a tragic accident... deal with it, people die in car crashes everyday, gonna give them all state funerals?
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xAngelx
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#69
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#69
(Original post by deadflower1984)
And so do ordinary people every day, but they don't have all this fuss about them!
The woman is dead, so it was a tragic accident... deal with it, people die in car crashes everyday, gonna give them all state funerals?

yeah but we all aren't in the the media all the time dimwit
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Muse
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#70
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#70
(Original post by deadflower1984)
And so do ordinary people every day, but they don't have all this fuss about them!
The woman is dead, so it was a tragic accident... deal with it, people die in car crashes everyday, gonna give them all state funerals?
Diana, in her privileged position could simply have stayed in her Palace and do nothing all day. As Earl Spencer said, she threw herself into her charity work and felt she had a true vocation for helping people. She certainly wasn't a saint. She enjoyed her wealth and leisure as much as any other millionaire - but she DID take on causes that were far from fashionable (AIDS) and controversial ( landmines) when she could have had an easier life. She also worked behind the scenes for people less fortunate than she was. In this she was not unique: The rest of the royal family work consistently for their charities in much the same way.
I think the fact that "people die in car crashes everyday" is totally irrelevant to any of the points made.
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xAngelx
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#71
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#71
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
Diana, in her privileged position could simply have stayed in her Palace and do nothing all day. As Earl Spencer said, she threw herself into her charity work and felt she had a true vocation for helping people. She certainly wasn't a saint. She enjoyed her wealth and leisure as much as any other millionaire - but she DID take on causes that were far from fashionable (AIDS) and controversial ( landmines) when she could have had an easier life. She also worked behind the scenes for people less fortunate than she was. In this she was not unique: The rest of the royal family work consistently for their charities in much the same way.
I think the fact that "people die in car crashes everyday" is totally irrelevant to any of the points made.
you say the rest of the royal family i dont see the queen with a kid with aids on her knee she cant even take her gloves of to shake peoples hands
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Safraaz
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Dude)
i think it's stupid that she got that much attention. All she did was visit afew sick and poor people.
you make me laugh mate, she was a good person
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