Pro life? Pro choice? Watch

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L i b
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Kavanne)
Even for rape victims?
I have yet to work out my own feelings on the subject, but as they stand, yes.

Oh, and some anonymouis negrepper said the following:
Because I feel like it. In this day and age your opinion is completely invalid.
Firstly, how an opinion can be invalid is quite beyond me. Secondly, I find that 'because I feel like it' attitude disgustingly flippant.

(Original post by Kate85)
You do realise that the pill is only 99% effective don't you? Therefore there is always a 1% chance of pregnancy although the woman has been protecting herself. Again, if a woman believes she is protected by her pill why would she think of taking the morning-after-pill since she hasn't had unprotected sex?
1%, over the course of a year. That's an incredibly level of protection. Combine that with a condom and it's even less. In the end, however, you're quite right about never being 100% certain, but that's a risk I suppose people have to take.

Interesting point about not thinking about the morning after pill when you're on the pill. Never thought of that.


Also, just because a woman enjoys sex doesn't mean that she must want a child. A couple could be married and still not want children, does that mean they have to have a non-sexual relationship until they choose to have children? Some people just hate the thought of a woman (Dear God!) enjoying sex and purely wanting sex for pleasure....they just want them to lay back and think of what to cook for dinner every time their husband wants sex and then must pump out as many kids as possible....
Oh for God's sake. So now the fact that I am against what I see as murdering babies means I am some sort of sexist bigot? Nonsense. It has nothing to do with women - the only think that you're doing is carrying it, men also have responsibility etc to a child.

It's not so much that anyone really will stop having sex (although it might be an idea if your situations mean that you really cannot have a child at a certain time) but they just ought to be prepared for the small possibility that they could get pregnant. Speaking as an unplanned conception, it's not that bad...
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Sorani
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#42
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#42
I personally would not have an abortion but I am pro-choice because of course that's just my decision if other girls want abortions I can't see why they shouldn't, it's your own body, it's your own choice.

That said, I do think abortion should be the last option not just thought of as a contraceptive.
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indiekitten
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#43
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#43
absoloutely pro choice. it sickens me some of those people who blow up abortion clinics. how is that pro life?

I would never want to bring a child in to the world now. Id resent it for ruining my life. which is not healthy.
I wouldnt give it a seconds thought if i fell pregnant. keeping it is not an option right now. for my sake, and for the childs.
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Amanda
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#44
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#44
(Original post by LibertineNorth)
In this day and age, it amazes me that anyone actually needs to have an abortion anyway.
:ditto:
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Talya
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#45
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(Original post by Kate85)
You do realise that the pill is only 99% effective don't you? Therefore there is always a 1% chance of pregnancy although the woman has been protecting herself.
As LibertineNorth said, this is in WOMAN YEARS. So out of every 100 women that are sexually active on the pill, only one will become pregnant in that year. You could have sex hundreds of times in a year! So the pill IS VERY EFFECTIVE.
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litispendence
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#46
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#46
Pro choice all the way.
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Manatee
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#47
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(Original post by Kavanne)
As LibertineNorth said, this is in WOMAN YEARS. So out of every 100 women that are sexually active on the pill, only one will become pregnant in that year. You could have sex hundreds of times in a year! So the pill IS VERY EFFECTIVE.
Let's focus on that one woman, then. As far as she is concerned, it is irrelevant whether she is one of thousands of unintentionally pregnant women or the only one. She is still faced with a situation she must resolve.
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Talya
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Manatee)
Let's focus on that one woman, then. As far as she is concerned, it is irrelevant whether she is one of thousands of unintentionally pregnant women or the only one. She is still faced with a situation she must resolve.
Which is why there should be choice. It's not her fault she got pregnant, she was being responsible by using a very effective method of contraception.
EDIT: My post wasn't saying I was pro'life', I was trying to show Kate85 that the pill IS very effective even though they say it is 'only' 99% effective.
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xXMessedUpXx
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#49
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#49
(Original post by LibertineNorth)
Pro-life. I want it to be illegal again, with a decent prison sentence (10 years at least in most cases) attached to it.

In this day and age, it amazes me that anyone actually needs to have an abortion anyway. Contraception and the morning after pill (although the latter is technically aborting) should be sufficient to tackle anything.
right

you are aware that :
a)contraception can and does fail?
b)the morning after pill is only 95% effective....so bthere is still a chance of unwanted pregnacy?
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xXMessedUpXx
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#50
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(Original post by Kate85)
Pro-choice. No protection is 100% so we either have to give people the choice of abortion or expect all men & women of all ages to abstain from sex unless they want a baby which would never be practical
I agree with you. (tho many relgious people won't)
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Manatee
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Kavanne)
Which is why there should be choice. It's not her fault she got pregnant, she was being responsible by using a very effective method of contraception.
EDIT: My post wasn't saying I was pro'life', I was trying to show Kate85 that the pill IS very effective even though they say it is 'only' 99% effective.
I completely agree. Sorry, my post wasn't directed specifically at you - I was just reacting to pro-lifers' frequent "argument" that abortions aren't necessary because of the effectiveness of modern contraception.
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L i b
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#52
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(Original post by xXMessedUpXx)
right

you are aware that :
a)contraception can and does fail?
b)the morning after pill is only 95% effective....so bthere is still a chance of unwanted pregnacy?
A negligable one, but yes that's life. If you have sex, you can get pregnant. Just like if you cross the road, there's a small chance you'll get hit by a car. I don't think that gives anyone any less responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

Quote from random annoymous negrepper
comments from an ignorant mind. Put a woman to prison for having an abortion? would you put the man who raped her in there as well for 10 years? i didnt think so.
The ignorance here is far from on my side. Yes, I would consider a lengthy sentence to be quite appropriate for rape - but shockingly being raped is not the only way to become pregnant. There is no practical way to make abortion only legal when someone has been raped - the act would have to be proven first, which takes a huge amount of time and a lenthy trial of the accused if they are ever found. More importantly, however, I consider killing to be a worse crime than rape.
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indiekitten
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#53
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#53
Yes, i agree. If you Have sex, you need to accept the consequences. And surely accepting the consequences would be to have an abortion, rather than bringing a child in to a world where it would be uncared for, and ruin at least 3 peoples lives in the process. A world where it would probably be taken to care. Or if it stayed with the parents, live on the poverty line, 9 times out of 10.

Are you syaing - in the case of teenage pregnancies, that its better for us to have a bunch of uneducated people living on welfare, with children, who having known no different will probably lead their life the same way (big generalisation, i know, but hey, you see what i mean)...

Or would you rather a world where we had people who made what they can out of their lives, and settled down when THEY were ready?

I get the feelign that you feel abortion to be ';an easy way out'. It isnt, for a lot of women, its very very traumatic. not just the physical process - which is draining, and an awful experience, but also the mental.

I dont believe people should be born in order to suffer. I believe people should live in order to fully experience their life. And they should get as good a start on that as they can. not born for the sake of it.
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Kate85
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#54
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I get awfully confused by all of these 'pro-lifers'. They say that all life is precious however they would allow abortions for rape victims. Is that basically saying that a baby born from rape is less worthy of life than a baby born from consented sex? If all life is precious then surely all pregnancies, regardless of how they occurred, should be continued?
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NDGAARONDI
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Kate85)
I get awfully confused by all of these 'pro-lifers'. They say that all life is precious however they would allow abortions for rape victims. Is that basically saying that a baby born from rape is less worthy of life than a baby born from consented sex? If all life is precious then surely all pregnancies, regardless of how they occurred, should be continued?
Exactly. And wrong choice of words here, not all pro-lifers advocate abortion for rape.
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NDGAARONDI
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#56
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#56
(Original post by indiekitten)
Or if it stayed with the parents, live on the poverty line, 9 times out of 10.
Are you advocating abortion on poverty grounds and if so would you advocate mass infertilisation from potential mothers in Africa?
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L i b
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#57
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#57
Would probably be a good idea to lock this thread since it is basically just saying what's going on in D&D.

(Original post by indiekitten)
Yes, i agree. If you Have sex, you need to accept the consequences. And surely accepting the consequences would be to have an abortion, rather than bringing a child in to a world where it would be uncared for, and ruin at least 3 peoples lives in the process. A world where it would probably be taken to care. Or if it stayed with the parents, live on the poverty line, 9 times out of 10.
Are you implying that all aborted children are aborted because their parents are poor? That just doesn't stand up to the statistics - quite the opposite in fact. There's no need to ruin anyone's life. For the vast majority of people, a child will be a blessing, planned or not. There's also adoption. On the side of the child, anything is better than being dead. Just because you are poor does not make your life less valuable. Face it, the vast majority of people support abortion for totally selfish reasons, ie being pregnant would be a bit of an inconvenience for them.

Getting rid of something because it is inconvenient to you is not accepting the consequences of your actions.

Are you syaing - in the case of teenage pregnancies, that its better for us to have a bunch of uneducated people living on welfare, with children, who having known no different will probably lead their life the same way (big generalisation, i know, but hey, you see what i mean)...
Yes it is a very big generalisation. I believe all life should be equal before the law regardless of which class you come from.

Or would you rather a world where we had people who made what they can out of their lives, and settled down when THEY were ready?
The child doesn't get to 'settle down' - it never got a chance to be born. More importantly, there will always be bad or impoverished parents. I have a friend whose parents, although well off, were completely awful - despite the unpleasantness of this, he is now engaged and having a bloody great life.

I get the feelign that you feel abortion to be ';an easy way out'. It isnt, for a lot of women, its very very traumatic. not just the physical process - which is draining, and an awful experience, but also the mental.
Aye, it's traumatic because deep down these people know they're doing wrong. And to be honest, they really ought to feel bad. It's still the easy way out - they're doing it for themselves.

I dont believe people should be born in order to suffer. I believe people should live in order to fully experience their life. And they should get as good a start on that as they can. not born for the sake of it.
Born for the sake that they're already alive?

You cannot predict who will have a good life and who will suffer.
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KerChing
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#58
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#58
(Original post by LibertineNorth)

Born for the sake that they're already alive?

You cannot predict who will have a good life and who will suffer.
you may be right about this...but sometimes stats speak for themselves, what is the percentage of teenage mothers who make into the managerial/skilled social classes... not many, mainly because the bond they have with their child has been formed a long time before they are theoretically able to finish their education...
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NDGAARONDI
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#59
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#59
(Original post by indiekitten)
Yes, i agree. If you Have sex, you need to accept the consequences. And surely accepting the consequences would be to have an abortion, rather than bringing a child in to a world...
You're having a laugh, right? :toofunny:
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Vienna
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Beekeeper)
Pro choice thanks, i'd hate for some power-hungry, morally obsessed arse telling me what to do with my body...
Pro-choice on the NHS?
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