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psychic_satori
No offense, but that is a terrible philosophy to have with regards to politics. You make it seem as if there is one set Republican archetype, and you totally disregard who varied the stances can be within one party. I want a population to have the best choices out there available to them. To support the idea of anything less goes against the spirit of democracy.


On the contrary, the optimism that suggests that a party with the exact same members, the same senators and congressmen, the same financial backing and the same core supporters will act completely differently in government if led by one man than by another is to have blind faith in a democratic ideal that fails to match the political reality.

If I simply disregarded the varied stances within each party I'd have no opinion as to which candidate should be chosen. As it is, I do (albeit an ill-informed and hastily drawn one). With the Democrat and Republican parties as they currently are, I'd rather see a Democrat president than a Republican one. Full stop.
Bismarck
You're the one with the add-ons. :p:

I think Clark would have a decent shot of winning. Lieberman probably would have made it close. Dean, Edwards, and Kerry were all obviously going to lose, so it's rather sad that they ended up being the three finalists.


Shows how utterly lost the Dem primary voters are... I actually liked Lieberman better than Clark, b/c I found Clark to be a bit too idealistic and less electable. And, Clark wore sweaters too frequently...
Tomorrow2Day
On the contrary, the optimism that suggests that a party with the exact same members, the same senators and congressmen, the same financial backing and the same core supporters will act completely differently in government if led by one man than by another is to have blind faith in a democratic ideal that fails to match the political reality.

If I simply disregarded the varied stances within each party I'd have no opinion as to which candidate should be chosen. As it is, I do (albeit an ill-informed and hastily drawn one). With the Democrat and Republican parties as they currently are, I'd rather see a Democrat president than a Republican one. Full stop.


And that's why Clinton acted just like Carter, and Reagan acted just like Nixon. Oh wait. :rolleyes:

Presidents have much more power in the US than the political parties, and it is often the President who shapes his party's agenda, not the other way around.
Bismarck
His kind of mentality is what got the DNC horrible candidates in the last two elections.


A little odd, since I suggested the candidate that you yourself would have voted for. Out of interest, what is my "kind of mentality" and how do you know so much about it?
psychic_satori
Shows how utterly lost the Dem primary voters are... I actually liked Lieberman better than Clark, b/c I found Clark to be a bit too idealistic and less electable.


He had a good knowledge of foreign policy and deferred to the Clinton wing of the DNC for economic advice. Lieberman is a bit too socially conservative and he lacks even an ounce of charisma.

And, Clark wore sweaters too frequently...


Don't ask, don't tell. :wink:

Tomorrow2Day
A little odd, since I suggested the candidate that you yourself would have voted for. Out of interest, what is my "kind of mentality" and how do you know so much about it?


Republicans = evil. Democrats = good. Try winning elections by choosing candidates that only appeal to the Democrats.
Bismarck
And that's why Clinton acted just like Carter, and Reagan acted just like Nixon. Oh wait. :rolleyes:

Presidents have much more power in the US than the political parties, and it is often the President who shapes his party's agenda, not the other way around.


Not just like, but Clinton was certainly more similar to Carter than he was to how Bush would have been (it was Bush he beat? ^not an American^).
Tomorrow2Day
On the contrary, the optimism that suggests that a party with the exact same members, the same senators and congressmen, the same financial backing and the same core supporters will act completely differently in government if led by one man than by another is to have blind faith in a democratic ideal that fails to match the political reality.


The US system is different from the British one. Elections for President are elections for one individual position. To say that the candidates are all alike because they are all Republican implies that you hardly understand the way the American government works.

If I simply disregarded the varied stances within each party I'd have no opinion as to which candidate should be chosen. As it is, I do (albeit an ill-informed and hastily drawn one). With the Democrat and Republican parties as they currently are, I'd rather see a Democrat president than a Republican one. Full stop.


The President is an individual, who does not require an oath to his party, but to his office. Your hastily drawn conclusions show unfounded bias. Period.
Bismarck
And that's why Clinton acted just like Carter, and Reagan acted just like Nixon. Oh wait. :rolleyes:

Presidents have much more power in the US than the political parties, and it is often the President who shapes his party's agenda, not the other way around.


Not just like, but Clinton was certainly more similar to Carter than he was to how Bush would have been (it was Bush he beat? ^not an American^).

And anyway, if Wes Clark only appeals to Democrats, why did you support him?

Also, you got the Democrats = Good bit wrong. It's Republicans = evil, Democrats = less evil.
Tomorrow2Day
Not just like, but Clinton was certainly more similar to Carter than he was to how Bush would have been (it was Bush he beat? ^not an American^).


Actually, Clinton was as fiscally conservative as Bush and even though he was more socially liberal, Bush didn't attempt to pass his social conservatism into law. Clinton was much closer to Nixon than he was to Carter, and Reagan's idol was Frankling D. Roosevelt (a democrat). Presidents in the US do not blindly follow the party line.

And anyway, if Wes Clark only appeals to Democrats, why did you support him?


Clark was much stronger than Bush on national security and he was roughly as fiscally conservative as Bush. He was sure to steal quite a few moderate Republican votes.

Also, you got the Democrats = Good bit wrong. It's Republicans = evil, Democrats = less evil.


Sadly for you, the Marxist-Leninist party decided not to put forward a candidate during the last election.
Bismarck
He had a good knowledge of foreign policy and deferred to the Clinton wing of the DNC for economic advice. Lieberman is a bit too socially conservative and he lacks even an ounce of charisma.


Come on! He looks like Droopy Dog--that'd win over the Soccer Moms AND Nascar Dads!
Bismarck
Actually, Clinton was as fiscally conservative as Bush and even though he was more socially liberal, Bush didn't attempt to pass his social conservatism into law. Clinton was much closer to Nixon than he was to Carter, and Reagan's idol was Frankling D. Roosevelt (a democrat). Presidents in the US do not blindly follow the party line.


Actually, it was Calvin Coolidge. He grew up in the Roosevelt era, and, like many others, he idolized him as a young man. However, in his adult years, he was all about Silent Cal.
psychic_satori
Actually, it was Calvin Coolidge. He grew up in the Roosevelt era, and, like many others, he idolized him as a young man. However, in his adult years, he was all about Silent Cal.


Considering his radical agenda, I don't think he behaved much like Coolidge. Just like FDR, he thought that American society couldn't exist the way it was and needed a drastic overhaul. The only difference is the direction their radicalism took them.

Come on! He looks like Droopy Dog--that'd win over the Soccer Moms AND Nascar Dads!


Don't forget the Cartoon Network crowd. :wink:
Bismarck
Considering his radical agenda, I don't think he behaved much like Coolidge. Just like FDR, he thought that American society couldn't exist the way it was and needed a drastic overhaul. The only difference is the direction their radicalism took them.


Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that the two are alike, but just pointing out that Coolidge was his fave.
psychic_satori
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that the two are alike, but just pointing out that Coolidge was his fave.


Did Reagan say this before or after he became senile (i.e. before or after '80)? :wink:
Bismarck
Did Reagan say this before or after he became senile (i.e. before or after '80)? :wink:


It was back when he was running for governor.

And don't be mean about old people and their senility...he was so grandfatherly. :redface:
psychic_satori
It was back when he was running for governor.

And don't be mean about old people and their senility...he was so grandfatherly. :redface:


Grandfathers are supposed to be retired and telling stories to tell their children, not selling missiles to Iranians. Plus he went senile 5 years before you were born. :p:
Bismarck
Grandfathers are supposed to be retired and telling stories to tell their children, not selling missiles to Iranians. Plus he went senile 5 years before you were born. :p:


That didn't make him any less grandfatherly. :p:
On a somewhat related note, is anyone watching the Roberts hearings? Roberts is abusing Kennedy. I think Kennedy is about to cry. :biggrin:
Bismarck
On a somewhat related note, is anyone watching the Roberts hearings? Roberts is abusing Kennedy. I think Kennedy is about to cry. :biggrin:


Oh! I forgot about that! Am watching it know. Arlen's trying to keep Teddy in line. Oooh, and they're talking about Grove City College. Wow, this just keeps gettin' better!
psychic_satori
Oh! I forgot about that! Am watching it know. Arlen's trying to keep Teddy in line. Oooh, and they're talking about Grove City College. Wow, this just keeps gettin' better!


I like the way Roberts is so arrogant, but Kennedy keeps on falling into the trap of debating with him over legal issues.

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