how many Shias are on this board? Watch

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Socrates
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Agent Smith)
Anyhow. What, out of interest, does (swt) mean?
Subhanahu wa taa'la
(All praise is due to Him (God))
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watford110
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#22
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#22
(Original post by jam_boy)
AS (alayhis salaam) is said after the name of the Prophets and Ali wasn't a Prophet.
Imam Ali (AS) was part of the Holy Prophet's (PBUH&HP) pure and pious Ahlul-bayt. Shia's believe that the Imams are infallible and free of sin and therefore warrant *(AS)*. And just for the record, no Shias dont raise the Status of Ali (AS) to that or above of Allah's final apostle!!

(Original post by The Basilisk)
I don't want to be horrible because I don't understand shiaism at all- but why wouldn't you want to be a sunni? Sunni means following the prophet's examples- don't you do that?
You dont have to be a sunni to follow the Prophets examples! Sunni is merely a term to differentiate itself from other sects more than anything else.

No offence but werent you the person who said Umar was the 1st Caliph and was chosen by God?!
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Dimez
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#23
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(Original post by watford110)
Imam Ali (AS) was part of the Holy Prophet's (PBUH&HP) pure and pious Ahlul-bayt. Shia's believe that the Imams are infallible and free of sin and therefore warrant *(AS)*.
I agree with the former sentence, however, with regards to the latter, to say that Ali ( may Allah have mercy on his soul) was infallible is utter false. Even the first Prophet Adam (alayhis salaam) committed the sin by eating from the forbidden tree but was later forgiven, so according to Shia doctrine, the first Prophet (alayhis salaam) committed a sin yet Ali (may Allah have mercy on his soul) was free of sin. :confused:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that raise the status of Ali above that of the first Prophet?
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Agent Smith
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#24
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That made me think. It's a similar notion to the Catholic doctrine of the Pope's infallibility. The first Pope, St. Peter, denied Christ three times, thereby blowing a hole in the idea of infallible Popes from the off. However, for those that still cling to it, it raises the Pope above Adam, just as Shias appear to elevate Ali.

Why is Adam regarded specifically as a prophet? I thought prophets had to actually teach or prophesy, but as far as I know he did neither.
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watford110
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#25
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#25
(Original post by jam_boy)
I agree with the former sentence, however, with regards to the latter, to say that Ali ( may Allah have mercy on his soul) was infallible is utter false.
The Messenger of Allah recited "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul- Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification". (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33) and then the Messenger of Allah said: "Thus Me and my Ahlul-Bayt are clear from sins."


(Original post by jam_boy)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that raise the status of Ali above that of the first Prophet?
Yes it does indeed. The final Prophet was the finest of creations. His Ahlul-Bayt are next.
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Dimez
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#26
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(Original post by watford110)
The Messenger of Allah recited "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul- Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification". (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33) and then the Messenger of Allah said: "Thus Me and my Ahlul-Bayt are clear from sins."




Yes it does indeed. The final Prophet was the finest of creations. His Ahlul-Bayt are next.
I beg to differ, what your telling me is that all the other Prophets (peace be upon them), including Jesus, Moses and Joseph, were beneath the Ahlul- Bayt!?!
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zazy
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#27
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#27
I am
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Agent Smith
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#28
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It seems unfair for the Ahlul-Bayt to be cleansed from all sin simply by being related to Muhammad (PBUH) - they didn't do anything to deserve it themselves.
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watford110
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#29
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#29
(Original post by jam_boy)
I beg to differ, what your telling me is that all the other Prophets (peace be upon them), including Jesus, Moses and Joseph, were beneath the Ahlul- Bayt!?!
You can differ all you want, the Ahlul-Bait's status as highlighted in the Quran and the traditions of the Holy Prophet (AS) is only second to that of the Messenger himself. As a muslim i have love and respect for all the Prophets but i cant argue with the Quran and hadeeth.

(Original post by Agent Smith)
It seems unfair for the Ahlul-Bayt to be cleansed from all sin simply by being related to Muhammad (PBUH) - they didn't do anything to deserve it themselves.
*Trying my best not to express profanities at this quote*

The virtues of Ahlul-Bait are undisputed and if i was here for the next ten years i could not list all of them. I assume your post is out of ignorance, because even the most hardcore Wahabi cannot deny the greatness of the Ahlul-Bayt.
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Dimez
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#30
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#30
(Original post by watford110)
You can differ all you want, the Ahlul-Bait's status as highlighted in the Quran and the traditions of the Holy Prophet (AS) is only second to that of the Messenger himself. As a muslim i have love and respect for all the Prophets but i cant argue with the Quran and hadeeth.

Specific quotes from the Quran and authentic hadith to substantiate your claims would be useful right about now. However, I still fail to comprehend why Shia's give Ahlul bayt a higher status than the Noble Prophets (peace be upon them).
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Lecter
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#31
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(Original post by The Basilisk)
I don't want to be horrible because I don't understand shiaism at all- but why wouldn't you want to be a sunni? Sunni means following the prophet's examples- don't you do that?
You what? I don't understand sunni's! Yeah i do follow the Holy Koran and the prophet(pbuh), imam Ali (AS)!
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LawQueen
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Agent Smith)
That made me think. It's a similar notion to the Catholic doctrine of the Pope's infallibility. The first Pope, St. Peter, denied Christ three times, thereby blowing a hole in the idea of infallible Popes from the off. However, for those that still cling to it, it raises the Pope above Adam, just as Shias appear to elevate Ali.

Why is Adam regarded specifically as a prophet? I thought prophets had to actually teach or prophesy, but as far as I know he did neither.
good points raised-anyone going to answer?
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watford110
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#33
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#33
(Original post by jam_boy)
Specific quotes from the Quran and authentic hadith to substantiate your claims would be useful right about now.
(Original post by watford110)
The Messenger of Allah recited "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul- Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification". (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)
also

Verily your master is only Allah, and His messenger and those among the believers who establish worship and pay the poor due while they are bowing down in prayer. (5:55)
bold bits are characterisitcs attributed to the Ahlul-Bayt. below is a similar Quranic reference.

They are those whom Allah has blessed among the prophets and the verifiers, the martyrs and the righteous. (4:69)
also

"O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those vested with authority (Ulul-Amr) from among you." (Quran 4:59).

(Original post by jam_boy)
However, I still fail to comprehend why Shia's give Ahlul bayt a higher status than the Noble Prophets (peace be upon them)
Why? We believe all Prophets are noble, pious and sinless. However, Shia doctrine puts the final apostle and his ahlul-bayt at the top of the tree as it were.
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#34
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I'm shia. I'm also sunni.
So you're either crazy or a Sufi?

I hate you sunnis. You strut about as if you own the place just because there are more of you and you don't even beat yourself up at Ashurra!
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GandalfdaGoblin
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Multiplexed)
I'm shia. I'm also sunni.
well said. and I am neither a shia nor a sunni, i am just a muslim.
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#36
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well said. and I am neither a shia nor a sunni, i am just a muslim.
Unless you're a sufi this is practically impossible. How do you pray? Do you celebrate Ashurra, which Imams do you believe in...
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GandalfdaGoblin
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#37
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#37
i dunnno wat u mean. i mean sunnis arent very happy on Ashura, y'know. my point was that er... we muslims shudn't really be prejudiced against each other on the account of being a sunni/shia/bohri etc.
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Xenon
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#38
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#38
I'm a shia.
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Person
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#39
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#39
my point was that er... we muslims shudn't really be prejudiced against each other on the account of being a sunni/shia/bohri etc.
Sorry I misunderstood
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Dimez
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Agent Smith)

Why is Adam regarded specifically as a prophet? I thought prophets had to actually teach or prophesy, but as far as I know he did neither.
Because God made Adam (alayhis salaam) a Prophet.
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