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bumblebee86
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#101
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#101
(Original post by vienna95)
but because your black....?
Err... Yes sometimes I do get quite angry that many of my black peers do not seem to take education seriously. It angers me that they feel they must live in a country and simply rely completely on the government's support. Yes, many whites do live on Social Security, but it seems many more blacks do so. We are a minority in the country but a majority in jail. It makes me very angry to think of it. I am ashamed to see every black male aspiring to be the next top gansta rappa. I don't know really, I prefer to simply set my own targets (at the moment becoming a doctor) and make sure my brothers do well in school.

What do you think should be done Vienna? I mean like, if you were Prime Minister, what would you do?

What I seem to find though, is that most of the time, the blacks who do not do well are those who were born and brought up in England. Those who have come from wealthy African families (myself) were brought up realising the value of hard work. We know that this is a brilliant opportunity to excel. We have not come to Europe to fail. Those born here think it is their right to a free education. I see it as a chance, a great chance.

Research has shown that the brightest group at 5 years old are black males and then they rapidly go downhill. Personally, the amount of black rappers on television does not help the black race move forward.
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Mariam Safe
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#102
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#102
It very late now, I can’t stay here too long! I might have more to say on this tomorrow!

(Original post by hitchhiker_13)
But as roughly 5% of the population are black, then 95% of employees should be not white, but "non-black", in an equal society. I also think you overestimate institutional racism. I don't deny that it exists, it is just not so widespread.
I think you have not quite understood me.

1)What I’m saying is that if two equally capable people apply for a job (equally intelligent in terms of academic qualifications, charismatic, team-spirited, etc), doesn’t matter about the proportion of "whites" and "non whites" in our society- be it 95% or 5%, the "white" will be favoured (this is statistically significant at a very high level).

2)I will admit that educational institutions treat candidates fairly; I myself go to one of the two prestigious universities.

3)Yes, it is also the case that relativly much more black people are socioeconomically deprived but look back at the first point.

4)I think that it is very hypocritical to blame black people for not being able to better themselves and at the same time recognising their social circumstances and criticising the measures governments take to reduce this serious inequality. (you are poor… it is your own fault that you are poor… you should try harder… although you are treated unfairly it is still your own fault that you are poor… try harder…)


(Original post by hitchhiker_13)
A programme called "Working Class Ambition", I think would be worthwhile.......
Agree with you on principle here. Althoguh, I keep on stressing, you've got recognise that any working class person (white or non white) can pass the educational hurdle only if he/she tries hard and has a lot of perseverance (and or is naturally gifted), so "blacks" and "whites" are have the same chance of academic success (as I said, there is very little institutional racism in education). It is only when it comes to job hunting, a problem arises. Generally, working class black people have very few role models (in their families) because of discrimination they face. This in turn is generally responsible for their socioecomic circumstances, as I was trying to describe above.

A programme like would be certainly intersting and heart warming. Making people aware of socially unacceptable injustices is very important. I do believe that the existence of a working class is an injustice but a much lesser one than racial disrimination.
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Mariam Safe
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#103
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#103
(Original post by atom)
Would you find a simliar program called Muslim Ambition offensive in this context?
I think this is an irrelevant question because I was referring to "non whites" or ethnic minorities not just "blacks", Muslims being a subset of which. You might also like to know Muslims have no racial divisions-all races are equal in Islam (national pride is frowned upon as racism can arise as a result of this). The argument here turns into a "caste system" one, which is also, ironically strictly forbidden in Islam. I think it is something we will discuss.
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Vienna
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#104
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#104
(Original post by Mariam Safe)
3)Yes, it is also the case that black people are socioeconomically deprived but look back at the first point.
black people are deprived now? gross generalisations based on race?you are nuts.

4)I think that it is very hypocritical to blame black people for not being able to better themselves and at the same time recognising their social circumstances and criticising the measures governments take to reduce this serious inequality. (you are poor… it is your own fault that you are poor… you should try harder… although you are treated unfairly it is still your own fault that you are poor… try harder…)
how about we recognise those in poverty in general and not just ur race game. people such as myself believe that the welfare state should be minimal and not the handout-dependency socialist system that u advocate here.
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Vienna
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#105
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#105
(Original post by Mariam Safe)
I think this is an irrelevant question because I was referring to "non whites" or ethnic minorities not just "blacks", Muslims being a subset of which. You might also like to know Muslims have no racial divisions-all races are equal in Islam (national pride is frowned upon as racism can arise as a result of this).
it is frowned upon because religion dictates cohesion, not nationality, which is coincidentally the strongest mass cohesive force in western society. and there is absolutely nothing to conclude that national pride is related to racism.
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hitchhiker_13
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#106
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#106
(Original post by Mariam Safe)

4)I think that it is very hypocritical to blame black people for not being able to better themselves and at the same time recognising their social circumstances and criticising the measures governments take to reduce this serious inequality. (you are poor… it is your own fault that you are poor… you should try harder… although you are treated unfairly it is still your own fault that you are poor… try harder…)

I don't believe I said or implied anything of the sort. If I did, I certainly didn't mean to.
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icarusgideon
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#107
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#107
(Original post by atom)
You make out that slavery is simply a "white" vs "black" issue. This suggest that you know very little about the history of slavery, in particular the history of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. The below passage shows how Africans (or "blacks") were also responsible for a large part of the attrocities.

"Between 1450 and the end of the nineteenth century, slaves were obtained from along the west coast of Africa with the full and active co-operation of African kings and merchants. (There were occasional military campaigns organised by Europeans to capture slaves, especially by the Portuguese in what is now Angola, but this accounts for only a small percentage of the total.) In return, the African kings and merchants received various trade goods including beads, cowrie shells (used as money), textiles, brandy, horses, and perhaps most importantly, guns. The guns were used to help expand empires and obtain more slaves, until they were finally used against the European colonisers. The export of trade goods from Europe to Africa forms the first side of the triangular trade."
http://africanhistory.about.com/libr.../aa080601a.htm

Also, Muslim traders conducted their own slave trade, often forgotten, which accounted for about 5 million slaves than the whole of the trans-Atlanic trade (read the below passage and check out the article if you find this hard to believe). Would you find a simliar program called Muslim Ambition offensive in this context?

"However, Europe did not have a monopoly on slavery. Muslim traders also exported as many as 17 million slaves to the coast of the Indian Ocean, the Middle East, and North Africa."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1523100.stm

My points above do not condone slavery or the trans-atlantic slave trade. The slave trade was a dreadful crime against humanity, but not simply as you put it, a crime by "whites" against "blacks".
I'm sorry to use the generalisations "blacks" and "whites", but I use them only to respond in the context of your argument.
Its always people who post these kind of posts that anger me even more than that right-wing vienna (BNP-voting woman!!).
Your problem is that your talking about "muslim traders" and not arabs, thus you are implying that its a "muslim thing", don't you know that prophet mohamed (pboh) had been fighting racism till his last breath. Don't you know that the Quraan specificaly states that racism is sinfull, or is it you lack of knowledge of the sit., which has left you to refer to 'muslim traders' and not arabs!

I don't see anyone blaming the Pope for the child abuse in churches and all that fighting in northern ireland!!!
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hitchhiker_13
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#108
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#108
(Original post by icarusgideon)
I don't see anyone blaming the Pope for the child abuse in churches and all that fighting in northern ireland!!!

Well actually, Ian Paisley does.
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]{ingnik
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#109
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#109
ponder this: we hear so much of the mobo awards (music of black origin) but what if there were the music of white origin awards? there would be mass protest. think about it!
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hitchhiker_13
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#110
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#110
(Original post by ]{ingnik)
ponder this: we hear so much of the mobo awards (music of black origin) but what if there were the music of white origin awards? there would be mass protest. think about it!

If you read through this thread, you will find exactly this discussion with "White Ambition".
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]{ingnik
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#111
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#111
apologies, just putting forward a point.
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atom
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#112
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#112
(Original post by icarusgideon)
Its always people who post these kind of posts that anger me even more than that right-wing vienna (BNP-voting woman!!).
Your problem is that your talking about "muslim traders" and not arabs, thus you are implying that its a "muslim thing", don't you know that prophet mohamed (pboh) had been fighting racism till his last breath. Don't you know that the Quraan specificaly states that racism is sinfull, or is it you lack of knowledge of the sit., which has left you to refer to 'muslim traders' and not arabs!

I don't see anyone blaming the Pope for the child abuse in churches and all that fighting in northern ireland!!!
I was merely quoting the source. If want to argue the wording then contact the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1523100.stm
I didn't imply that it is, how you say, a "muslim thing", nor that it is condoned or preached by Islam.
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Vienna
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#113
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#113
(Original post by icarusgideon)
right-wing vienna (BNP-voting woman!!).
retraction please.
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matouwah
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#114
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#114
(Original post by vienna95)
retraction please.
get laid....i find u good man...he satisfy u...how bout 'the g' ...he showed me it once...it very big
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the g
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#115
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#115
(Original post by vienna95)
retraction please.
i <3 u
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atom
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#116
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#116
(Original post by Mariam Safe)
1)What I’m saying is that if two equally capable people apply for a job (equally intelligent in terms of academic qualifications, charismatic, team-spirited, etc), doesn’t matter about the proportion of "whites" and "non whites" in our society- be it 95% or 5%, the "white" will be favoured (this is statistically significant at a very high level).
(Original post by Mariam Safe)
If the "white" person is picked 95 times out of 100, we have a problem. We need a mechanism to correct this unfairness.
You say that 95 times out of a 100 a white person will be picked over an equally qualified black person. I doubt very much that this is the case (and I certainly hope that it is not so). I'm sure the statistics that you are reading do not take everything into account, but please post a link to the source of them.
What "mechanism" do you suggest in the case of two equally qualified people, one "black", one "white"? Just out of interest, who would you pick between two identical candidates?
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jealousflesh
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#117
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#117
Greetings,

I found this community purely by accident. It is absolutely fantastic. Talk about scandal, controversy and drama. I'm impressed.

I am not an academic scholar like you folks, just your average joe but I am no stranger to online forums in general where contentious topics are somewhat discussed in a heated uncivilised fashion. There has been some SHOCking statements made by certain individuals and as much as i'd love to get stuck in thats not the reason I've registered and responded to this post on this particular occasion however I will relish butchering certain members on this forum in the near future. That I promise.

(Original post by dondadda)
I have been searching the bbc website for two weeks in order to gain contact details of the actual producer or production company for this program. "Black Ambition"

Dondadda
Dondadda,

I too have been searching for details of the production company and my search led me here. Talk about coincidence. I am a big fan of on-the fly documentary programmes like "black ambition", the real beckhams, macintyre undercover and bad behaviour to mention a few. It’s a shame only 4 episodes were commissioned. Unfortunately I missed the first two episodes. The idea was fresh innovative and highly entertaining to watch, and from a technical perspective I loved the camera work, editing and overall raw look and feel of it. I think the creator/series producer goes by the name of Jacqueline Osei-Tutu.

Listen, I am into this sort of thing and I’ve been trying for the last 2 years to find light minded creative individuals to create and produce an original documentary piece. If this is the sort of thing you are interested in doing as well, email me.
[email protected]

Until next time.
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Sire
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#118
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#118
Sorry, but I should point out jealousflesh that viena95 practially owns that avatar, and you've decided to make your first post on a thread in which she is almost single handedly defeating anyone who dares to post a controversial comment.
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Sire
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#119
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#119
(Original post by jealousflesh)
There has been some SHOCking statements made by certain individuals and as much as i'd love to get stuck in thats not the reason I've registered and responded to this post on this particular occasion however I will relish butchering certain members on this forum in the near future. That I promise.
I love the humble beginning, though the specific intention to relish butchering certain members shortly does make me do a double take. Was this your intention, or are you trying to coax some fool into stepping out on a limb, where you shall simply knock them off? Time will tell I guess, but I'll be keeping an eye out for you Welcome to the forum, I'm sure you shall enjoy your time here.
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Safraaz
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#120
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#120
(Original post by jndikum)
You made racist comments before..now don't even start..

The fact that blacks are a minority in this country and much emphasis has been placed on black under achievement, it is great to see some academically bright blacks on television. This will hopefully break down many stereotypes.
agree with u 100% its good this black ambition program but i missed it
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