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crana
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#101
Report 16 years ago
#101
(Original post by neildm)
No, you haven't got that wrong. On the whole though it does average out to 16.7% acceptance for black students. (averaging carribean, african and others) Anyway, I agree that getting lots more people to apply is absolutely essential. Hopefully with the help of a good education reaching people in most societies, the associated of poverty with certain races will be alleviated and everyone will be happy. lol
Let's hope so
(Pembroke leadinng the way forward.....?)
Rosie x
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angelzland
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#102
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#102
next week a few girls who went to my school (and then to Cam) will be on the programme!
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zoe_catlin
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#103
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#103
(Mentally Ill]
Advocates of a Cambridge education are evidently NOT in favour of dissenting opinion. I apologise for quite clearly rattling you, and it is a shame that you have had to resort to derogatory remarks such as my apparent "ignorance" in order to put forward a reasoned counter-response. I have to add that the fact that you do not know the meaning of the word prima facie and do not appear to have the wherewithal to use a dictionary to establish it's meaning, leads me to question your supposed intelligence, or lack thereof.
In response to your continued inability to grasp my point, I must assert yet again that my decision not to apply to Cambridge was reinforced by the documetary but had its foundations in having visited the colleges, and the area, and also I might add from having spoke to two close friends who are both Solicitors who attended Cambridge and regretted doing so because depsite what anyone says it mostly consists of white, middle-class students. This is evidenced once again by the fact that there are only approx 84 black student out of a 12000 student population. Go figure!!
By saying that I am generalising means that I am putting forward a statemnt based on little if no evidence. Please correct me if I am wrong but are you saying that half of the Cambridge undergraduates come from working class backgrounds or from State schools?
Moreover you facetious remarks that I am seeking a university replete with Rastafarians misses my point. It is a shame that rather than addressing the issue of the lack of diversity you have become defensive. The fact that there are Ivy League universities (predominantely Black universities) which exist within the USA such as Howard completely undermines your premise that seeking an education alternative to the "oh so scared" Cambridge one is a flawed proposition. As for your assertion that I must "{also} have a dream" like Martin Luther King(MLK)I have to say that I am more of a Malcolm X type of person and so such sentiments do not tug at my heart strings! If you knew anything about MLK (which you evidently do not!), you would realise that he (like most other Civil Rights Leaders) was a deeply flawed man, who towards the end of his life was begininning to take a stance akin to that of Malcolm X!
I say GOOD LUCK to you if you are going to Cambridge or if you presently attend Cambridge as I feel that you would probably need that extra leverage in life to succeed!! I would much rather stick to my ideals, however DISTASTEFUL to ANYONE than to become a mindless automaton who becomes highly offended (as you appear to be) if anyone disagrees with him!
People who continue to post that Cambridge wouldn't want me anyway ssem to miss the point. I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE!!!!! This also confirms to me the fact that no-one is permitted to question the disparities which exist there. Do you prefer students who go to interviews grinning from ear to ear, feeling forever thankful they have been permitted that so hallowed interview knowing that when they look around the colleges they will hardly see any faces comparative to their own - i.e Black! Must they conveniently overlook or dismiss this fact in order not to rock the provervial boat!
This by the way is not an attempt to be controversial this is how I feel like it or NOT!!!
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kildare
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#104
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#104
(Original post by zoe_catlin)
(Mentally Ill]
. The fact that there are Ivy League universities (predominantely Black universities) which exist within the USA such as Howard completely undermines your premise that seeking an education alternative to the "oh so scared" Cambridge one is a flawed proposition.
Howard is not part of the Ivy League.
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Tek
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#105
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#105
(Original post by zoe_catlin)
If you knew anything about MLK (which you evidently do not!), you would realise that he (like most other Civil Rights Leaders) was a deeply flawed man, who towards the end of his life was begininning to take a stance akin to that of Malcolm X!
You've never studied History, have you?
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Tek
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#106
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#106
(Original post by zoe_catlin)
because depsite what anyone says it mostly consists of white, middle-class students. This is evidenced once again by the fact that there are only approx 84 black student out of a 12000 student population. Go figure!!
Oh my God.
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lala
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#107
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#107
(Original post by zoe_catlin)
(Mentally Ill]
Advocates of a Cambridge education are evidently NOT in favour of dissenting opinion. I apologise for quite clearly rattling you, and it is a shame that you have had to resort to derogatory remarks such as my apparent "ignorance" in order to put forward a reasoned counter-response. I have to add that the fact that you do not know the meaning of the word prima facie and do not appear to have the wherewithal to use a dictionary to establish it's meaning, leads me to question your supposed intelligence, or lack thereof.
Zoe, I know you weren't talking to me there, but if you really think that one can accurately stereotype thousands of students as being pretty much the same, which you did, then you are ignorant- no inverted commas necessary. Your prejudices are your own business if you keep them to yourself, but if you come on a forum spouting them then you have to expect to be pulled up on them by people who know better.
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Alaric
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#108
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#108
(Original post by zoe_catlin)
By saying that I am generalising means that I am putting forward a statemnt based on little if no evidence. Please correct me if I am wrong but are you saying that half of the Cambridge undergraduates come from working class backgrounds or from State schools?
With regard to the 2002 entry (my year), 56% are from the maintained sector and 44% the independent - leaving those from the state sector in the majority contrary to your beliefs. The working class divide is a lot less favourable, but I for one couldn't have afforded a private education should I have even wanted one. Some colleges have access statistics of in the 60-70% range for state school intake.

(source: http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/pres...idge_today.pdf pg26)

To attempt to demean someone for not understanding a word you have used strikes me as intellectual pomposity with little regard for those who may not have English as a first language.

I wish you a pleasant education, wherever that may be. I do just ask you to take each person as an individual and indeed not perpetuate stereotypes of cambridge students either, as we don't all conform to your views of ourselves.

Alaric.
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Tek
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#109
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#109
(Original post by lala)
Zoe, I know you werent talking to me there, but if you really think that one can accurately stereotype thousands of students as being pretty much the same, which you did, then you are ignorant- no inverted commas necessary. Your prejudices are your own business if you keep them to yourself, but if you come onto a forum spouting them then you have to expect to be pulled up on them by people who know better.
She also didn't know that "its" when denoting possession doesn't need an apostrophe. Some people.
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Mentally Ill
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#110
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#110
ZOE - thanks for your detailed response.
(Original post by Zoe_Catlin)
I have to add that the fact that you do not know the meaning of the word prima facie and do not appear to have the wherewithal to use a dictionary to establish it's meaning, leads me to question your supposed intelligence, or lack thereof.
Yes I can use a dicitionary, but quite simply, could'nt be bothered. Is it really neccessary to demonstrate your broad vocabulary on here? Isn't it obvious that I do not feel the need to use all these words in everyday life? Anyway, if you feel the need to question my intellegence please question away.

I am not going to waste my time addressing the rest of your post because you are an idiot. Many of the points you try to make are, quite frankly, nonsense. Since when is Howard part of the Ivy league?

Before trying to impress people with your vocabulary, try to get your facts right.

Let me get something straight: I do not feel offended by the fact that you disagree with my opinion. I am offended, instead, that you are talking **** and therefore cannot back up your own opinion.
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Mentally Ill
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#111
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#111
(Original post by zoe_catlin)
In response to your continued inability to grasp my point, I must assert yet again that my decision not to apply to Cambridge was reinforced by the documetary but had its foundations in having visited the colleges, and the area
I know I said I was not going to address the rest of your post, but this sentence is a little disturbing. It seems you cannot grasp your own point. To quote your initial post AGAIN :

(Original post by zoe_catlin)
I was going to apply to Cambridge this year (I am a black british woman), but having watched the documentary, I think not!!
Now you say you visited Cam. These visits could ONLY have taken place before you watched the documentary. Therefore, the visits to Cam did not put you off. So what you originally said was:

I was going to do X. Having watched Y I will no longer do X. This means, the thing that made you decide against X (applying) is Y (i.e. the documentary).

Can YOU grasp it yet? Or do you need bullet points?
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Tek
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#112
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#112
(Original post by Mentally Ill)
I am not going to waste my time addressing the rest of your post because you are an idiot.
You speak the truth.
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smaug
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#113
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#113
I have every sympathy with Zoe Caitlin's desire not to go to a university where she will be surrounded by white middle class (worse - upper middle class ) people! However I would like to ask her this:
Given that the situation where we have elite universities is not going to change, in fact it's going to get much worse with the introduction of variable top up fees, does she not think it's important that black people like herself have the courage to be 'pioneers'(of a sort ) and join these universities so that their children, and their children's children, will not feel like outsider's in the way she does, but will be part of a truly representative minority?
Good luck to you anyway
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Mentally Ill
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#114
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#114
(Original post by smaug)
I have every sympathy with Zoe Caitlin's desire not to go to a university where she will be surrounded by white middle class (worse - upper middle class ) people! However I would like to ask her this:
Given that the situation where we have elite universities is not going to change, in fact it's going to get much worse with the introduction of variable top up fees, does she not think it's important that black people like herself have the courage to be 'pioneers'(of a sort ) and join these universities so that their children, and their children's children, will not feel like outsider's in the way she does, but will be part of a truly representative minority?
Good luck to you anyway
Have no sympathy for the dog - she wants to perpetuate the idea of a world of segregation, where blacks study in one place and whites study in another.

People are people, no matter what class they may belong to. So what if you are you surrounded by white middle class dudes at Cambridge? (not that you will be!). Big f*****g deal. Of course it may be a totally different environment than she would be used to, but in life, if you don't embrace change, then you will not succeed. Sometimes you have to be the one to make the change.

She seems not to be able to understand that by (1) being a black woman and (2) possibly having the ability to study at Oxbridge, she could be one of those that set the trend and 'break the mould' she talks about.

Once upon a time women were not allowed to vote. One day a few courageous women challenged this, and now all women have the vote. Things can change, but it takes a few brave and courageous people to start the ball rolling and make a few sacrifices. She is obviously not one of them.
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kildare
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#115
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#115
A friend of mine (a black girl) received an offer from Newham to read SPS today... Amazingly enough, it does happen...
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smaug
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#116
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#116
(Original post by Mentally Ill)
Have no sympathy for the dog - she wants to perpetuate the idea of a world of segregation, where blacks study in one place and whites study in another.
I agree with everything you've said on this thread, except for the above statement. I don't think Zoe wants a 'world of segregation' I think she is simply not one of those brave people who is prepared to 'break the mould'. And why should you insult her for that? Isn't it natural that she should want to go to a university where she will feel confident and comfortable? After all, thats what the 50% of oxbridge ppl who come from public school are doing - choosing somewhere where they feel comfortable - 'public school with bars'!
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lala
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#117
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#117
(Original post by smaug)
I agree with everything you've said on this thread, except for the above statement. I don't think Zoe wants a 'world of segregation' I think she is simply not one of those brave people who is prepared to 'break the mould'. And why should you insult her for that? Isn't it natural that she should want to go to a university where she will feel confident and comfortable? After all, thats what the 50% of oxbridge ppl who come from public school are doing - choosing somewhere where they feel comfortable - 'public school with bars'!
On a slight detour, but bear with me...
In no way are 50% of Oxbidge students from public schools. I think you mix up public with independent maybe? I have seen lots of different definitions of what constitutes a public school, but from what I've seen I think most people agree that there's a difference. As far as I know, the numbers of ex-public schoolers at Oxford hasnt actually been measured. Also, the figures you use are wrong anyway, even if you meant independent schools. Apart from the fact that over half of home students are from state school (meaning less than 50% are from the independent sector) there are also international students, who I think constitute about 10% of the Oxbridge population. I'm not sure what the total percentage of independent schoolers is, but its considerably lower than 50%.
Hope this clears it up a bit.
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Mentally Ill
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#118
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#118
(Original post by smaug)
I agree with everything you've said on this thread, except for the above statement. I don't think Zoe wants a 'world of segregation' I think she is simply not one of those brave people who is prepared to 'break the mould'. And why should you insult her for that? Isn't it natural that she should want to go to a university where she will feel confident and comfortable? After all, thats what the 50% of oxbridge ppl who come from public school are doing - choosing somewhere where they feel comfortable - 'public school with bars'!
Yes, perhaps you are right. Zoe probably doesn't want segregation. However, I insult her not for failing to be 'brave', but instead for being a complete idiot. If you scroll back a few pages, you'll see that I began to get upset with Zoe for her sweeping and ill informed generalisations.

50% of oxbridge ppl do not come from public school. Oxbridge is not public school with bars. You are misinformed.
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smaug
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#119
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#119
(Original post by Mentally Ill)

50% of oxbridge ppl do not come from public school. Oxbridge is not public school with bars. You are misinformed.
OK just checked the stats Oxford 39% private school Cambridge 44% (telegraph unofficial guides) . Still pretty shocking though isnt it? And most of the state school people come from grammars or middle class comprehensives. The other remark is a joke though like most jokes has an element of truth about it.
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Mentally Ill
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#120
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#120
(Original post by smaug)
OK just checked the stats Oxford 39% private school Cambridge 44% (telegraph unofficial guides) . Still pretty shocking though isnt it? And most of the state school people come from grammars or middle class comprehensives. The other remark is a joke though like most jokes has an element of truth about it.
I think it is far from shocking given the history of oxbridge etc. However, I see what you are getting at when you say oxbridge is like 'public school with bars'. That may not neccessarily be a bad thing to every working class student.....sometimes, those who haven't had the privilige of a public school education so far may be encouraged by that image!

Anway, I have some working class humour to watch on BBC 2 now - Little Britain.
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