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Vienna
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#661
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#661
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
I will humour your amusing oversight of the phrase "not racist on the surface" - i will never agree with u u beligerent whale - another thing is that you deny everyone's argument which is really not very constructive
oversight? it was taken into full consideration i can assure you. other than the silly abuse and ranting against me, you have done little to show that in fact his statements did in no way deserve an allegation of inciting racial hatred.
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Kurdt Morello
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#662
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#662
(Original post by vienna95)
oversight? it was taken into full consideration i can assure you. other than the silly abuse and ranting against me, you have done little to show that in fact his statements did in no way deserve an allegation of inciting racial hatred.
Excuse me Vienna - rhetorical questions that have the sole aim of degrading the position of Arab peoples seems to be pretty racist to me. If you cant see that much then u either dont know what u r talking about or else u have a right-wing agenda
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Vienna
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#663
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#663
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
Excuse me Vienna - rhetorical questions that have the sole aim of degrading the position of Arab peoples seems to be pretty racist to me. If you cant see that much then u either dont know what u r talking about or else u have a right-wing agenda
so i happen to take a different context on his comments, which were generalisations but hardly fiction considering that the West is developed and the majority of Arab nations are developing or third world. if you happen to think that is abusive then fair enough. i dont believe it was worthy of such criticism especially if we take into consideration the events surrounding the production of that article. its quite amusing to see that my difference in opinion paints me as not knowing what im talking about and having an agenda. forgive me, but i didnt know ur opinion had been accepted as fact so suddenly.
and wasnt i labelled as the one who didnt listen? that whale? who would only accept her own views? who didnt accept anyone else opinion...shame on you...

whats also amusing is the sudden disappearance of any objection to his mention of arab states..something that youve already conceded is in no way racist, let alone untrue. as you desire to blame the West must surely prove.

so, what are you actually arguing about?
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Tina
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#664
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#664
(Original post by byb3)

They do it everyday. Al-Jazeera critcises us all the time.


Adam
correction al-jazeera criticizes our GOVERNMENT - tony blair and his gang....THEY DO NOT say that all british people are killers....they do not claim the british race never contributed anything to the world. and btw have you watched al-j or have u just picked up random quotes from other news channels?
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Kurdt Morello
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#665
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#665
(Original post by vienna95)
so i happen to take a different context on his comments, which were generalisations but hardly fiction considering that the West is developed and the majority of Arab nations are developing or third world. if you happen to think that is abusive then fair enough. i dont believe it was worthy of such criticism especially if we take into consideration the events surrounding the production of that article. its quite amusing to see that my difference in opinion paints me as not knowing what im talking about and having an agenda. forgive me, but i didnt know ur opinion had been accepted as fact so suddenly.
and wasnt i labelled as the one who didnt listen? that whale? who would only accept her own views? who didnt accept anyone else opinion...shame on you...

whats also amusing is the sudden disappearance of any objection to his mention of arab states..something that youve already conceded is in no way racist, let alone untrue. as you desire to blame the West must surely prove.

so, what are you actually arguing about?
Let me tell u quite plainly so that u understand once and for all - i said it didnt appear to be racist on the surface as he seems to be criticising the states and not the people - however the fact is, by saying that their country has nothing to offer is an indictment of the culture that the people believe in - especially by calling people barbarous. I am not completely dispelling ur argument but u certainly seem to be doing that to mine - therefore retribution was in order - but if i have hurt u by seeming not to listen then i regret it. Otherwise i think that there are a number of flaws in ur argument. U forget that he also wrote this article in a right-wing newspaper and was offensive to people who are arabs and people who tend not to believe blanket statements
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Kurdt Morello
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#666
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#666
(Original post by Tina)
correction al-jazeera criticizes our GOVERNMENT - tony blair and his gang....THEY DO NOT say that all british people are killers....they do not claim the british race never contributed anything to the world. and btw have you watched al-j or have u just picked up random quotes from other news channels?
i agree with u tina - good point
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Tina
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#667
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#667
(Original post by vienna95)
Tina, could you please, please quote me where Kilroy refers directly to Arab people...
yes he does not make it clear that he is (supposedly) referring to states...he uses the words the arabs.....which implies arab people...just like if someone used the jews instead of israel it would implie the jewish race...interestingly just to put a new spin on this....subsituute the word arab for jew in the article.....how anti-semitic would it appear?! and just because this article is against arabs who you dont particularly like vienna the case is completely different. how hypocritical!
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Vienna
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#668
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#668
(Original post by Tina)
correction al-jazeera criticizes our GOVERNMENT - tony blair and his gang....THEY DO NOT say that all british people are killers....they do not claim the british race never contributed anything to the world. and btw have you watched al-j or have u just picked up random quotes from other news channels?
Tina(again), if you can quote me where Kilroy levels his claims against the Arab people as opposed to "despotic and barbarous" "Arab states" then ill be pleased to agree with you.
yesterday you were "shocked" to see an Arab supporting the evident truth in Kilroys comments because he was indeed an Arab inciting that race be put before principle. bearing in mind the liberal nature of this forum, i find it difficult not to see you as anything but a racist and a very angry one at that.
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JSM
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#669
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#669
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
U forget that he also wrote this article in a right-wing newspaper and was offensive to people who are arabs and people who tend not to believe blanket statements
if they tend not to believe blanket statements, why are they worried.
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Vienna
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#670
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#670
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
Let me tell u quite plainly so that u understand once and for all
ohh, patronising, and wasnt i thought i was the only one.

- i said it didnt appear to be racist on the surface as he seems to be criticising the states and not the people - however the fact is, by saying that their country has nothing to offer is an indictment of the culture that the people believe in - especially by calling people barbarous. I am not completely dispelling ur argument but u certainly seem to be doing that to mine - therefore retribution was in order - but if i have hurt u by seeming not to listen then i regret it. Otherwise i think that there are a number of flaws in ur argument. U forget that he also wrote this article in a right-wing newspaper and was offensive to people who are arabs and people who tend not to believe blanket statements
so its not racist, but you take it that way and it was in such and such a paper so that must alter how racist it is. is if that should make a any difference! anything else? is it racist or not? no.
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JSM
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#671
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#671
(Original post by Tina)
yes he does not make it clear that he is (supposedly) referring to states...he uses the words the arabs.....which implies arab people...just like if someone used the jews instead of israel it would implie the jewish race...interestingly just to put a new spin on this....subsituute the word arab for jew in the article.....how anti-semitic would it appear?! and just because this article is against arabs who you dont particularly like vienna the case is completely different. how hypocritical!
So his actual problem is a lack or transparency or an inability to produce clear statements, not being a racist.
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Kurdt Morello
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#672
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#672
(Original post by JSM)
if they tend not to believe blanket statements, why are they worried.
because they know it is below them but giving the wrong impression
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Howard
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#673
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#673
Well, I'm sorry to say that the Arab peoples for the most part don't need much help in degrading themselves from the likes of Kilroy.

Female circumcision in the Sudan.
Women excluded for prominence, even the right to education, in other states.
Women stoned to death for adultury.
Forced marriages.

I even watched a news exert last night about a gay Palestinian taking refuge in Israel (of all places) as his family had told him he would be killed if he ever returned to their village.

What a progressive bunch they are. But obviously, all of this is America's fault isn't it?
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Kurdt Morello
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#674
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#674
(Original post by vienna95)
ohh, patronising, and wasnt i thought i was the only one.



so its not racist, but you take it that way and it was in such and such a paper so that must alter how racist it is. is if that should make a any difference! anything else? is it racist or not? no.
i wasnt trying to be patronising - merely wanted to attract ur attention -i would also like u to consider Tina's point about the replacing of certain words in this article - yes it was a racist article my friend
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JSM
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#675
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#675
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
because they know it is below them but giving the wrong impression
but isnt that elitist, by believing themselves better than others, and totally out of line with socialist principles.
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Vienna
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#676
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#676
(Original post by Tina)
yes he does not make it clear that he is (supposedly) referring to states...he uses the words the arabs.....which implies arab people..
where??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????????????????? the only time he refers to arabs as people he gives specific references to an image of arab people and reference to those that the western world saw. that was his point, how can the west be expected to have any different a view other than that given by the media and what we see and hear.

.just like if someone used the jews instead of israel it would implie the jewish race...interestingly just to put a new spin on this....subsituute the word arab for jew in the article.....how anti-semitic would it appear?! and just because this article is against arabs who you dont particularly like vienna the case is completely different. how hypocritical!
agatha christie couldnt write this fiction....how can something be hypocrtical when you make two absurd allegations without evidence or indeed reply from myself?? if you calmed down about it maybe you could see that your damaging your credibility by spending half of your posts trying to portray me and pigeon hole my views instead of the actual debate. having said that you wouldnt be the only one...which is why the genuine debaters have moved on. i remain because being lied about isnt particuarly nice...
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JSM
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#677
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#677
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
i wasnt trying to be patronising - merely wanted to attract ur attention -i would also like u to consider Tina's point about the replacing of certain words in this article - yes it was a racist article my friend
but Israel has (indirectly) given us suicide bombers
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Tina
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#678
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#678
(Original post by Bigcnee)
Definition -

Arab - a member of a Semitic people originally from the Arabian peninsula and surrounding territories who speaks Arabic and who inhabits much of the Middle East and northern Africa.

Kilroy refers constantly to arabs throughout his post.

Basic English, Vienna.
thank you for pointing this out bigcnee i have been trying to tell vienna this for a long time
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Kurdt Morello
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#679
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#679
(Original post by Howard)
Well, I'm sorry to say that the Arab peoples for the most part don't need much help in degrading themselves from the likes of Kilroy.

Female circumcision in the Sudan.
Women excluded for prominence, even the right to education, in other states.
Women stoned to death for adultury.
Forced marriages.

I even watched a news exert last night about a gay Palestinian taking refuge in Israel (of all places) as his family had told him he would be killed if he ever returned to their village.

What a progressive bunch they are. But obviously, all of this is America's fault isn't it?
Howard it is quite clear to most rational people that the Arab culture is abhorrent to the West - justifiably so - but the slant put on the article was deliberately agressive and implied that all Arabs behaved like that - the fault lies with the Arab governments and the Western governments that support them - this article should also have attacked the West for supporting the regimes
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Vienna
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#680
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#680
(Original post by Howard)
Well, I'm sorry to say that the Arab peoples for the most part don't need much help in degrading themselves from the likes of Kilroy.

Female circumcision in the Sudan.
Women excluded for prominence, even the right to education, in other states.
Women stoned to death for adultury.
Forced marriages.

I even watched a news exert last night about a gay Palestinian taking refuge in Israel (of all places) as his family had told him he would be killed if he ever returned to their village.

What a progressive bunch they are. But obviously, all of this is America's fault isn't it?
nice to see you back howard..champion as ever.
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