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Jonatan
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#1
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#1
Several people probably have some decent reason to be sceptical to american politics and policies, but politicall corectness today is almost equivalent to antiamericanism. I am dead tiered of hearing people blaiming the US (and preferably Israel while they are at it) for everything that is wrong in the world.

All I hear over in Norway is how stupid Bush is, how the US started the war in Iraq just because of Oil (Russia on the other hand was of course not at all biased by the oil market when deciding to oppose the US), and how the US and Israel oppose the UN (meanwhile the UN condems Israels fence as if it was wan arsenal of WMDs ).
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Tina
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(Original post by Jonatan)
Several people probably have some decent reason to be sceptical to american politics and policies, but politicall corectness today is almost equivalent to antiamericanism. I am dead tiered of hearing people blaiming the US (and preferably Israel while they are at it) for everything that is wrong in the world.

All I hear over in Norway is how stupid Bush is, how the US started the war in Iraq just because of Oil (Russia on the other hand was of course not at all biased by the oil market when deciding to oppose the US), and how the US and Israel oppose the UN (meanwhile the UN condems Israels fence as if it was wan arsenal of WMDs ).
the only reason people hate israel and usa is because of their actions....its not "hip" to hate them at all
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Jonatan
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#3
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(Original post by Tina)
the only reason people hate israel and usa is because of their actions....its not "hip" to hate them at all
I find that hard to beleive when people hardly critisise the palestinian government even though they have actively supported terrorists for years, wehreas the UN general assembly passes a resolution condemming Israel for constructing a FENCE. I mean seriously. Israel has constructed a fence in order to prevent suecide bombers from blowing up civilians at restaurants, this is condemmed by the UN, but so far not a word has come from the UN condemming Arafats continuous support for terrorists. The UN general assembly even failed to pass aresolution condemming acts of terrorism against Israeli children, although Egypt got a similar resolution passed where the circumstances were the same. Apparently Israel is to just show suecide bombers the way in to restaurants and accept them without complaining...
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JaF
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I think that a lot of people think it is cool to jump aboard the antiamerican bandwagon. The sales of Michael Moore's books are evidence of this.

I think that George Bush might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but when you look at the whole of his administration it is actually quite a good government.
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Jonatan
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#5
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(Original post by JaF)
I think that a lot of people think it is cool to jump aboard the antiamerican bandwagon. The sales of Michael Moore's books are evidence of this.

I think that George Bush might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but when you look at the whole of his administration it is actually quite a good government.
I must say it was quite a surprise to hear this from a user with your avatar. Anyways I agree with you completely.
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Tina
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#6
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accepted the palestinian government is not that effective,. but the fact is israel is making v little attempt towards peace. its all very well talking about defence against suicide bombers but what abt when israel roll their tanks into gaza shooting at innocent children...destroying homes....im not just being emotional...FACT this happens and some brave israeli soldiers have refused to serve because of it
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Jamie
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#7
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(Original post by Jonatan)
I find that hard to beleive when people hardly critisise the palestinian government even though they have actively supported terrorists for years, wehreas the UN general assembly passes a resolution condemming Israel for constructing a FENCE. I mean seriously. Israel has constructed a fence in order to prevent suecide bombers from blowing up civilians at restaurants, this is condemmed by the UN, but so far not a word has come from the UN condemming Arafats continuous support for terrorists. The UN general assembly even failed to pass aresolution condemming acts of terrorism against Israeli children, although Egypt got a similar resolution passed where the circumstances were the same. Apparently Israel is to just show suecide bombers the way in to restaurants and accept them without complaining...
Actually a bit of background research will help you uncover the fact their are several outstanding resolutions condemning Israel. They ignore all of them, to the point that sanctions have been tabled several times. The US vetos them everytime.

AS for this 'fence' you seem to forget that when push comes to shove you are fencing in an entire population.
Whats different between that and the Jewish Gettoes? I'm sure the Jews would have been non too friendly with Nazis either.
J
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Tina
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(Original post by JaF)
I think that a lot of people think it is cool to jump aboard the antiamerican bandwagon. The sales of Michael Moore's books are evidence of this.

I think that George Bush might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but when you look at the whole of his administration it is actually quite a good government.
im very surprised at this coming from some1 with communist/marxist sympthathies! i would have thought ud recognise the inequalities that bushs gvt creates at least?
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Pegasus
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#9
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What annoys me is when people who probably couldn't even point out Israel on a map decide to blame the US for their problems.

*Its dubyas fault my toast got burnt this morning*

People's opinions are too easily influenced by people like Micheal Moore, although I've not read his books I have seen Bowling for Columbine and have seen his rather foolish speech on the Oscars. I did enjoy Bowling for Columbine and thought it was one of the better movies of 2003 but what a lot of people fail to understand was that a lot of it was intended just to be emotive and some of his statistics were a little dubious such as when comparing gun crime in the US to gun crime in Australia not taking into account population. A lot of people will have based their entire opinions on US politics just by watching this film.

Oh and another thing didn't you get annoyed when people, particluary pop/film stars, wear T-shirt slogans such as 'No Blood for Oil' without even knowing anything about why the US was planning on going to war. They just made people with real opinions on why the US shouldn't have gone to war with Iraq look bad with all their 'I don't want no war, innit'(!)
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Tina
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#10
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(Original post by JaF)
I think that a lot of people think it is cool to jump aboard the antiamerican bandwagon. The sales of Michael Moore's books are evidence of this.

I think that George Bush might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but when you look at the whole of his administration it is actually quite a good government.
and its not just a bandwagon.....its REALITY.
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Eggy Hog
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#11
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(Original post by JaF)
I think that a lot of people think it is cool to jump aboard the antiamerican bandwagon. The sales of Michael Moore's books are evidence of this.

I think that George Bush might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but when you look at the whole of his administration it is actually quite a good government.
I completely agree. As for people who compare George Bush Jnr. to Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein, make your own minds up instead of lapping up the views of resentful democrats like Michael Moore.
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JSM
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#12
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(Original post by Tina)
the only reason people hate israel and usa is because of their actions....its not "hip" to hate them at all
yes it is
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Tina
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#13
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(Original post by Eggy Hog)
I completely agree. As for people who compare George Bush Jnr. to Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein, make your own minds up instead of lapping up the views of resentful democrats like Michael Moore.
Bush jnr may not be a dictator, but he has taken actions to kill many people ...innocent people...just like the other 2
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Tina
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#14
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(Original post by JSM)
yes it is
its not hip to hate them when your country is at war with iraq...thats seen as unpatriotic, not supporting our troops
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JSM
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#15
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(Original post by Jonatan)
I find that hard to beleive when people hardly critisise the palestinian government even though they have actively supported terrorists for years, wehreas the UN general assembly passes a resolution condemming Israel for constructing a FENCE. I mean seriously. Israel has constructed a fence in order to prevent suecide bombers from blowing up civilians at restaurants, this is condemmed by the UN, but so far not a word has come from the UN condemming Arafats continuous support for terrorists. The UN general assembly even failed to pass aresolution condemming acts of terrorism against Israeli children, although Egypt got a similar resolution passed where the circumstances were the same. Apparently Israel is to just show suecide bombers the way in to restaurants and accept them without complaining...
No, what is wrong with the fence is that it is encapsulating areas which have been stolen, which were fixed after the 1949 war. It doesnt jsut protect them, but splits palestnian communities from their crops and their villages nad their relations. The fence is being built along lines detirmined by Israel, not its countries borders. In no way am i pro or anti palestine or Israel. I am neutral.
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Jonatan
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#16
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(Original post by Tina)
accepted the palestinian government is not that effective,. but the fact is israel is making v little attempt towards peace. its all very well talking about defence against suicide bombers but what abt when israel roll their tanks into gaza shooting at innocent children...destroying homes....im not just being emotional...FACT this happens and some brave israeli soldiers have refused to serve because of it
First things first. Ehud Barack Offered Arafat 90% of the west bank, a palestinian state, a part of eastern jerusalem and economical compensation for refugees as a peace proposal. Arafat on the other hand deemanded that ISrael should give 5 million palestinians Israeli citizenships. This would mean that Israel should have to increase its population with 50% , making it a palestinian majority. When Barack would not accept this requirement, Arafat responded by supporting the last intifada which caused the recent slaughter off palestinians and Irsaelis. He actually went on TV and praised the palestinian militant activists. Now was it Israel who did not do anything for peace?

When it comes to civilian deaths in the gazaa strip. Well, is it stranges innocent civilians get hurt when Hamaz & Co use them as human shields? israel is not deliberetely shooting civilians, but the terrorist organiation base their activities from refugee camps just because they know Israel get criticised if civilian refugees die when they try to get at the terrorists. The palestinian givernment do not do **** to stop these militants so now what option do Israel have? Either they can try to rout out the terrorists, in which case some civilians are bound to get hurt, or they may just sit silently and watch as suecide bomber after suecide bomber strikes at McDonalds restaurants School Buses and Synnagouges. They tried to build a fence in order to stop the suecide bombings, as this was a mean of preventing them without using military action, and what happens? The UN condemms the fence in a resolution!!!!
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JaF
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#17
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(Original post by Jonatan)
I must say it was quite a surprise to hear this from a user with your avatar. Anyways I agree with you completely.
I'm not a communist, the avatar was the only onethat appealed to me! As for my signature quotes they just outline my dislike for the importance some people give to religion and to be perfectly honest I think religion has a lot to answer for.

I would say it is an anti american bandwagon, for example all these people who laugh at George Bush and talk about how stupid he is.
People often make their minds up about Bush and America based on stupid insignificant anecdotes rather than taking time to consider the bigger picture.
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Jamie
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#18
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(Original post by Tina)
Bush jnr may not be a dictator, but he has taken actions to kill many people ...innocent people...just like the other 2
See the thing is I agree in principle to some of the aims that the white office claims to be going for, but I really don't understand the methodology of how they go about it. Like ignoring the UN, like the whole Steel Tariffs (ie trying it on with the whole EU), like invading Iraq, like awarding the contracts in closed bidding always to companies related to the white house. like banning war opposed countries from tendering contracts (in principle I agree, but there is a deep set hypocrisy with this and preaching free trade).
J
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Eggy Hog
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#19
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(Original post by Tina)
Bush jnr may not be a dictator, but he has taken actions to kill many people ...innocent people...just like the other 2
So did Churchill. The bombing of Dresden he ordered killed between 130 000 and 300 000 innocent german civilians (many more than died under Bush i'd argue) yet Churchill isn't compared to Hitler. He's supposedly the greatest ever Briton!
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Tina
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#20
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(Original post by Howard)
Michael Moore is an intellectual lightweight who writes highly unreadable ****.
but michael moore is not the issue! and by the way anti-bush does not equal anti-american! MM is an American!
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