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Jonatan
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#61
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#61
(Original post by JSM)
i know, but israel is as bad if not worse than the palestiniansb ecause it is a technologically advanced country (hence parallels with the Nazis) surpressing a larger group of people/. probably closer to the Italians and Abbyssinia.
The palestinians are mainly surpressed by their own government. Israely primarely targets the leaders of organisastion such as Hamaz and FAteh, whereas the palestinian terrorists target civilians almost exclusively. Israel is not worse just because they have access to better technology.
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Jamie
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Jonatan)
If you take a look at the resolutions imposed on Israel you will see quite an interesting pattern.

US + Israel: Against
Europe: Abstaining
Arab states: In favour

Result: Resolution passed....
But this is just it, and it really pisses me off. In the modern world you cant say what you think. The European countries always agreed with the arab states - especially ones like germany, italy and spain, but often were forced to abstain due to political reasons.
And you are missing Australia, New Zealand, China, Russia etc from your package there.
the resolutions were passed, meaning that they had the support of most of the world. And yet they weren't acted on. they were DEFIED.
What is the point of the UN if it can't enforce a resolution (several infact) because one member state disagrees.

It will all become conjecture in a few years anyway, because when push comes to shove islam is growing fast in america. Sometime within the next few decades it will be worth more votes to oppose israel than support, at which point the white house will ditch it, and force it to obey the resolutions
J
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Jonatan
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Tina)
they PROMISED support to the iraqis and failed to give it....how were the iraqis supposed to uprise against saddam when he had chemical weapons and far more power than the poor citizens of Iraq !
They were not promised support. They assumed they had it. Also, Saddam husein could very well have fallen had the army not been as loyal as they were.
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Tina
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#64
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#64
(Original post by foolfarian)

It will all become conjecture in a few years anyway, because when push comes to shove islam is growing fast in america. Sometime within the next few decades it will be worth more votes to oppose israel than support, at which point the white house will ditch it, and force it to obey the resolutions
J
but the thing is i cant see that happening soon, the zionist lobby in america is v.powerful and in contrast the muslim population tends to be from more w/c backgrounds.....a lot of African Americans in poverty turn to Islam...i doubt theyll have much influence on gvt policy
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Jamie
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Jonatan)
The palestinians are mainly surpressed by their own government. Israely primarely targets the leaders of organisastion such as Hamaz and FAteh, whereas the palestinian terrorists target civilians almost exclusively. Israel is not worse just because they have access to better technology.
Well the argument there is that the civilians can vote to stop the army, and so they become legitimate. Now I don't agree with this myself, but it is an argument nontheless
J
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JSM
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Jonatan)
The palestinians are mainly surpressed by their own government. Israely primarely targets the leaders of organisastion such as Hamaz and FAteh, whereas the palestinian terrorists target civilians almost exclusively. Israel is not worse just because they have access to better technology.
palestinians are not suppressed by their own government I am not condoning either view although i might suggest israel is slightly more culpable.
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Tina
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Jonatan)
They were not promised support. They assumed they had it. Also, Saddam husein could very well have fallen had the army not been as loyal as they were.
actually they were promised support.,.,,,,george bush snr made announcements through radio.....he was later seen on TV worldwide PLAYING GOLF saying the US troops would not support Iraqi revolts
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Tina
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Jonatan)
The palestinians are mainly surpressed by their own government. Israely primarely targets the leaders of organisastion such as Hamaz and FAteh, whereas the palestinian terrorists target civilians almost exclusively. Israel is not worse just because they have access to better technology.
if Israel targets terrorists explain how:

*Civil homes have been destroyed by Israeli tanks in Gaza & the West Bank
* A female British Aid worker - Rachel....cant remember her last name was killed by Israeli soldiers

*Women & CHILDREN have been killed by israeli attacks!

the list is endless
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Jonatan
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#69
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#69
(Original post by foolfarian)
But this is just it, and it really pisses me off. In the modern world you cant say what you think. The European countries always agreed with the arab states - especially ones like germany, italy and spain, but often were forced to abstain due to political reasons.
And you are missing Australia, New Zealand, China, Russia etc from your package there.
the resolutions were passed, meaning that they had the support of most of the world. And yet they weren't acted on. they were DEFIED.
What is the point of the UN if it can't enforce a resolution (several infact) because one member state disagrees.

It will all become conjecture in a few years anyway, because when push comes to shove islam is growing fast in america. Sometime within the next few decades it will be worth more votes to oppose israel than support, at which point the white house will ditch it, and force it to obey the resolutions
J
Well lets just analyse the UN for a second. Votes are made per country, population is not taken into considderation. Thus Norway has equally many votes as the US. Democracy is not a condition for voting. Thus Syria was allowed to vote when it came to the Iraq resolution. Do you not think it is slightly ironic when the Sovjet union , at that time occupying Romania, Hungary , Estonia, Latvia etc etc , voted in favour of a resolution condemming Israels occupation ? The UN general assembly has a majority of dictatorial states.

Furthermore, UN General assembly resolutions are not legaly binding. They are recomendations made by the UN. It is not a crime for a country not to follow a resolution passed in teh General assembly.
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Jamie
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Jonatan)
Well lets just analyse the UN for a second. Votes are made per country, population is not taken into considderation. Thus Norway has equally many votes as the US. Democracy is not a condition for voting. Thus Syria was allowed to vote when it came to the Iraq resolution. Do you not think it is slightly ironic when the Sovjet union , at that time occupying Romania, Hungary , Estonia, Latvia etc etc , voted in favour of a resolution condemming Israels occupation ? The UN general assembly has a majority of dictatorial states.

Furthermore, UN General assembly resolutions are not legaly binding. They are recomendations made by the UN. It is not a crime for a country not to follow a resolution passed in teh General assembly.
So it's a high and mighty position
1) Norway has too low a population, so it's vote doesn't count
2) The soviets were dictators and hypocrits so they don't count
3) The Chinese are commies so don't count
etc

However I would say that the US is just as bent as anywhere, and is no more valid because of its outside appearance as a democracy
J
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Jonatan
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Tina)
if Israel targets terrorists explain how:

*Civil homes have been destroyed by Israeli tanks in Gaza & the West Bank
* A female British Aid worker - Rachel....cant remember her last name was killed by Israeli soldiers

*Women & CHILDREN have been killed by israeli attacks!

the list is endless
One word for you! CROSSFIRE. Theres a difference between targeting and hitting. the terrorist organisation delibereltely operate within highly populated civilian areas in order to cause civilian deaths when they are atacked by the Israely military. This beacuse they know Israel is criticised when palestinian civilians die. As for the buildings demolished, I assume you are reffering to the situation in Jenin, where palestinian militant wiered tenfolds of buidlings woth explosives , causing them to collapse as Israeli military searched them. Further explanation regarding the buidlings should not be neccessary.

So whereas civilians are killed in clashes between the Israeli army and palsetinian militanst. The terrorist organisations TARGET the civilians. You dont see Israeli military setting of spike bombs in palestinian restaurants and buses.
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Jonatan
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#72
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#72
(Original post by foolfarian)
So it's a high and mighty position
1) Norway has too low a population, so it's vote doesn't count
2) The soviets were dictators and hypocrits so they don't count
3) The Chinese are commies so don't count
etc

However I would say that the US is just as bent as anywhere, and is no more valid because of its outside appearance as a democracy
J
Basicly what you are saying is that there is no crediability in the UN resolutions, and this is also exactly why Israel do not follow them.
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Jamie
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Jonatan)
Basicly what you are saying is that there is no crediability in the UN resolutions, and this is also exactly why Israel do not follow them.
But I'm betting if a resolution came in that the palestinians must relocate to other countries, leave the west bank, and vacate jerusalem and bethlehem then the Israelis would somehow find credibility again.
It's another case of if you don't like what you are being told you say 'I do not recognise your authority/this court' etc
J
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Tina
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#74
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#74
(Original post by foolfarian)
So it's a high and mighty position
1) Norway has too low a population, so it's vote doesn't count
2) The soviets were dictators and hypocrits so they don't count
3) The Chinese are commies so don't count
etc

However I would say that the US is just as bent as anywhere, and is no more valid because of its outside appearance as a democracy
J
funny how there was still a doubt about george bush's victory in the presidential elections....questions democracy!
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Tina
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#75
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#75
(Original post by foolfarian)
But I'm betting if a resolution came in that the palestinians must relocate to other countries, leave the west bank, and vacate jerusalem and bethlehem then the Israelis would somehow find credibility again.
It's another case of if you don't like what you are being told you say 'I do not recognise your authority/this court' etc
J
exactly my thoughts & couldn't have said it better my self!
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Jonatan
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Tina)
but the thing is i cant see that happening soon, the zionist lobby in america is v.powerful and in contrast the muslim population tends to be from more w/c backgrounds.....a lot of African Americans in poverty turn to Islam...i doubt theyll have much influence on gvt policy
Oh right, the zionist loby again. Quite honestly what would you say if I claimed that Europes support for teh palestinians is just because of the large amounts of muslim immigrants european countries acceppt? Seriously, the nonsense about teh big corrupt zionist lobby in the US originate from the new Nazi conspiracy theories. I would not put to muc h trust in it.
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Tina
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Jonatan)
One word for you! CROSSFIRE. Theres a difference between targeting and hitting. the terrorist organisation delibereltely operate within highly populated civilian areas in order to cause civilian deaths when they are atacked by the Israely military. This beacuse they know Israel is criticised when palestinian civilians die. As for the buildings demolished, I assume you are reffering to the situation in Jenin, where palestinian militant wiered tenfolds of buidlings woth explosives , causing them to collapse as Israeli military searched them. Further explanation regarding the buidlings should not be neccessary.

So whereas civilians are killed in clashes between the Israeli army and palsetinian militanst. The terrorist organisations TARGET the civilians. You dont see Israeli military setting of spike bombs in palestinian restaurants and buses.
that sounds like israeli garbage propaganda to me!
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kildare
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Jonatan)
Basicly what you are saying is that there is no crediability in the UN resolutions, and this is also exactly why Israel do not follow them.
No, that's what you're saying. It's unfortunate that Israel chooses not to respect the wishes of the majority of nations in the world but as you say, legally speaking G.A resolutions hold no weight. If G.A. resolutions don't hold any "credibility" then however, what does?
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Tina
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Jonatan)
Oh right, the zionist loby again. Quite honestly what would you say if I claimed that Europes support for teh palestinians is just because of the large amounts of muslim immigrants european countries acceppt? Seriously, the nonsense about teh big corrupt zionist lobby in the US originate from the new Nazi conspiracy theories. I would not put to muc h trust in it.
well it may be overemphasised and exagerated but it does exist....and they own a lot of media organisations
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Jonatan
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#80
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#80
(Original post by foolfarian)
But I'm betting if a resolution came in that the palestinians must relocate to other countries, leave the west bank, and vacate jerusalem and bethlehem then the Israelis would somehow find credibility again.
It's another case of if you don't like what you are being told you say 'I do not recognise your authority/this court' etc
J
Well, would you then complain if the palestinians did not accept its crediability?
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