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Jonatan
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Tina)
well it may be overemphasised and exagerated but it does exist....and they own a lot of media organisations
And now Id like to hear why you think the world would be such a better place if Muslims had more powers than Jews in the US...
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Tina
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Jonatan)
And now Id like to hear why you think the world would be such a better place if Muslims had more powers than Jews in the US...
question - when did i say or imply that?
question - when did i mention the word JEW.,....i said zionist....there is a difference.
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Jonatan
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Tina)
that sounds like israeli garbage propaganda to me!
In which way is it garbage? Palestinian terrorist do target civilians theres no doubt about it. Can you give me a singel example where Israeli military has deliberately TARGETED palestinian civilians? I am not talking about thsoe killed in crossfire. Give me an example where IDF has evidentely targeted the palsetinian civilian population!
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Jamie
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Jonatan)
And now Id like to hear why you think the world would be such a better place if Muslims had more powers than Jews in the US...
I dont think it will be a better place, but I think that the west is really trying to oppose islam, which is understandable because it bans some of the fundamentals of our society, such as alcohol, capitalism, womens rights. But it's like holding back a dam. The romans couldnt stop christianity, so what makes you think the americans can stop islam.
J
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Jamie
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Tina)
funny how there was still a doubt about george bush's victory in the presidential elections....questions democracy!
The idea of democracy is that the best man/woman for the job gets in. So in a country of over 250 million people, what are the odds that both father and son were the best for the job? Not high
J
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Jonatan
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#86
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#86
(Original post by Tina)
question - when did i say or imply that?
question - when did i mention the word JEW.,....i said zionist....there is a difference.
Remember this little post? :

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by foolfarian


It will all become conjecture in a few years anyway, because when push comes to shove islam is growing fast in america. Sometime within the next few decades it will be worth more votes to oppose israel than support, at which point the white house will ditch it, and force it to obey the resolutions
J
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but the thing is i cant see that happening soon, the zionist lobby in america is v.powerful and in contrast the muslim population tends to be from more w/c backgrounds.....a lot of African Americans in poverty turn to Islam...i doubt theyll have much influence on gvt policy


Il give it to you that you did not say Jews, but you did directly imply that it would be better if the Muslim population gained more influence on governmental politics.
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Jamie
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Jonatan)
In which way is it garbage? Palestinian terrorist do target civilians theres no doubt about it. Can you give me a singel example where Israeli military has deliberately TARGETED palestinian civilians? I am not talking about thsoe killed in crossfire. Give me an example where IDF has evidentely targeted the palsetinian civilian population!
There are plenty of cases. Only this term the varsity ran a story of a guy shot in israel. He was of arabic decent (there was footage and photos) and was shot getting out of a car by israeli sollys. (in the arm) Irony was that he was wearing a pro-american t-shirt
J
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Juwel
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Jonatan)
In which way is it garbage? Palestinian terrorist do target civilians theres no doubt about it. Can you give me a singel example where Israeli military has deliberately TARGETED palestinian civilians? I am not talking about thsoe killed in crossfire. Give me an example where IDF has evidentely targeted the palsetinian civilian population!
Maybe not with weapons but definitely with words. Political and religious leaders of Israel are always keen to tell everyone how scummy Palestinians are. For example, according to them it is OK to rape a Palestinian girl younger than 3, and after that it would be as if to have sex with an animal. Disgusting Israelites.
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Tina
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#89
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#89
(Original post by foolfarian)
I dont think it will be a better place, but I think that the west is really trying to oppose islam, which is understandable because it bans some of the fundamentals of our society, such as alcohol, capitalism, womens rights. But it's like holding back a dam. The romans couldnt stop christianity, so what makes you think the americans can stop islam.
J
can i just make a correction , yes i agree islam poses a threat to western ideals but it doesnt oppose womens rights or capitalism...it simply approaches them in different ways....its extrimist interpretations e.g. taliban - who i dont even regard as muslims who have made islam appear against anyything and everything.
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Jonatan
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#90
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#90
(Original post by foolfarian)
The idea of democracy is that the best man/woman for the job gets in. So in a country of over 250 million people, what are the odds that both father and son were the best for the job? Not high
J
The idea of democracy is that the population shall have a chance to vote down a crude ruler and so avoid a totalitarian dictatorship. This is why presidents are chosed based on popularity and not academic qualifications.
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Jamie
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Jonatan)
Remember this little post? :

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by foolfarian


It will all become conjecture in a few years anyway, because when push comes to shove islam is growing fast in america. Sometime within the next few decades it will be worth more votes to oppose israel than support, at which point the white house will ditch it, and force it to obey the resolutions
J
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but the thing is i cant see that happening soon, the zionist lobby in america is v.powerful and in contrast the muslim population tends to be from more w/c backgrounds.....a lot of African Americans in poverty turn to Islam...i doubt theyll have much influence on gvt policy


Il give it to you that you did not say Jews, but you did directly imply that it would be better if the Muslim population gained more influence on governmental politics.
I dont care about what she said but I'll make this statement.
I despise Zionism
I support Judaism
J
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Jonatan
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#92
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#92
(Original post by ZJuwelH)
Maybe not with weapons but definitely with words. Political and religious leaders of Israel are always keen to tell everyone how scummy Palestinians are. For example, according to them it is OK to rape a Palestinian girl younger than 3, and after that it would be as if to have sex with an animal. Disgusting Israelites.
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Sources please?
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Alaric
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#93
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#93
I'm going to try and stay out of the general argument because I've waded into this argument far far far too many times. The views are usually so polarised that nobody seems to have any opions changed and all that results is a long drawn out bloody conflict of words.

However...

I don't think it's necessarily 'hip' there may be plenty of people out there that don't understand a lot of the issues and history over US (and indeed Israeli) decisions but the concepts of not killing another human being and the principle of democracy (in this case the UN) are very easy to grasp. People wouldn't wear clothing or say stuff that makes you think they're trying to be 'hip' if they didn't agree to some extent. You wouldn't wear a t-shirt with a swostika on 'cause you thought it was a nice pattern. To dismiss peoples political views, however poorly articulated, as 'trying to be hip' is demeaning and grossly wrong.

People also need to distinguish between America (actions of a state), America (the country), Americans (stereotyping a country) and also Bush (the actions of the current head of state). They're all quite distinct and I'll be willing to be that 99% of people aren't anti-america (the country) but are against the incumbent president and the outward actions of the country. I think it's perfectly valid to judge a country by its outward actions. It also doesn't mean we think our government is superior, this isn't a pissing contest.
Similar distinctions are often needed to be made about Israel, with the addition of anti-semitism which quite frankly is a ridiculous thing to infer from anti-israel (actions of a state).

I suspect that a lot of people don't make some of these distinctions sometimes, and it is seen somewhat as unpatriotic to criticise the incumbent government. Perhaps that is why Brits like satire much more than other countries seem to?

If you can't tell yet, I'm pretty much firmly on the side of Palestine, but not the terrorists.

I would like to know why Israel used tanks to destroy one of Palestine's main police stations, letting countless criminals escape and destroying their infrastructure... then only hours later claim that Palestine can't capture the terrorists and set another ultimatum. That just doesn't make sense.
The other thing is that America is the only country that has used nuclear arms and they killed thousands of civilians with them. Yet now no other countries are allowed to develop them, but we get to keep them and we throw our weight around acting the world's policemen. Is that not slightly hypocritical?

Ok that's enough for now.

Alaric.
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Tina
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#94
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#94
(Original post by ZJuwelH)
Maybe not with weapons but definitely with words. Political and religious leaders of Israel are always keen to tell everyone how scummy Palestinians are. For example, according to them it is OK to rape a Palestinian girl younger than 3, and after that it would be as if to have sex with an animal. Disgusting Israelites.
that is sick! and i even have a quote from sharon somehwere where he says if he was an ordinary israeli citizen he would beat a palestinain, kick him and some really disgusting stuff, just trying to find it
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Tina
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#95
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#95
alaric - i agree with everything you said....good points!
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Juwel
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#96
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#96
(Original post by Jonatan)
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Sources please?
An e-mail.
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Tina
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#97
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#97
(Original post by foolfarian)
I dont care about what she said but I'll make this statement.
I despise Zionism
I support Judaism
J
so do i just to clarify things and i DID NOT imply tHAT it would be better if muslims had power....i said i cant see it happening
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Jamie
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#98
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#98
(Original post by Jonatan)
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Sources please?
Originally Posted by ZJuwelH
Maybe not with weapons but definitely with words. Political and religious leaders of Israel are always keen to tell everyone how scummy Palestinians are. For example, according to them it is OK to rape a Palestinian girl younger than 3, and after that it would be as if to have sex with an animal. Disgusting Israelites.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have to point out that palestinians are just as bad. The governemnts of israel and palestine preach hatred. Palestinian education teaches that the holocaust never happened, and was a lie fabricated to guilt the west into giving them Israel.
J
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Tina
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Jonatan)
In which way is it garbage? Palestinian terrorist do target civilians theres no doubt about it. Can you give me a singel example where Israeli military has deliberately TARGETED palestinian civilians? I am not talking about thsoe killed in crossfire. Give me an example where IDF has evidentely targeted the palsetinian civilian population!
theyre not going to go round announcing it!
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Jonatan
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#100
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#100
(Original post by Tina)
theyre not going to go round announcing it!
So in other words you just assumed it happened?
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