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Jonatan
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#101
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#101
(Original post by ZJuwelH)
An e-mail.
How reliable...
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Jamie
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#102
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#102
(Original post by Jonatan)
So in other words you just assumed it happened?
There are plenty of cases. Do you want me to find them out of the news archives for you?
J
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Tina
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#103
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#103
(Original post by Jonatan)
So in other words you just assumed it happened?
i did no such thing....the number of palestinan civilians dead speaks for itself. and the aid worker i mentioned earlier was not killed in cross fire....a tank rolled over her whilst she was trying to protect a child who threw a stone
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Tina
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#104
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#104
from an article by john pilger

"The Foreign Press Association in Jerusalem has complained to the Israeli government about its "defence force" targeting journalists - that is, shooting to kill them, just as they routinely kill Palestinians. The next step is for the same foreign journalists, who privately express understanding of the historic injustice done to people suffering one of the longest occupations in modern times, to reject the craven intimidation coming from New York and Finchley and Cheshire, and speak the truth. "
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Jamie
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#105
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#105
(Original post by Tina)
from an article by john pilger

"The Foreign Press Association in Jerusalem has complained to the Israeli government about its "defence force" targeting journalists - that is, shooting to kill them, just as they routinely kill Palestinians. The next step is for the same foreign journalists, who privately express understanding of the historic injustice done to people suffering one of the longest occupations in modern times, to reject the craven intimidation coming from New York and Finchley and Cheshire, and speak the truth. "
An Italian photographer was killed by Israeli machine-gun fire in fierce fighting in central Ramallah yesterday. He was the first foreign journalist to be killed in the 18 months of the Palestinian uprising.
A French photographer was injured by shrapnel yesterday and an Egyptian cameraman was hit when Israeli troops shot at his car - which was marked with TV signs - but the bullets were stopped by his flak jacket.

Raffaele Ciriello, 42, a veteran of the conflicts in Afghanistan and Kosovo working for Corriere della Sera, was inching his way around the lanes off Manara Square, the scene of heavy gunbattles between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian militants for much of the day.

Italian journalists in the area said a tank opened fire when he pulled out a small video camera. He was taken to hospital almost immediately but died soon afterwards.

The Israeli army said the source of the fire was uncertain and it was investigating.

The Italian foreign ministry asked the Israeli ambassador for a full explanation.

The International Press Institute said the shooting seemed to be "part of a concerted strategy by the Israeli army to control reports on the recent surge in armed hostilities in the region".

At least 40 foreign journalists have been shot by Israeli live or rubber bullets during the uprising, according to Reporters Without Borders.

J
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Eggy Hog
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#106
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#106
(Original post by Tina)
i did no such thing....the number of palestinan civilians dead speaks for itself. and the aid worker i mentioned earlier was not killed in cross fire....a tank rolled over her whilst she was trying to protect a child who threw a stone
Do you know how hard it is for a tank moving at speed to stop?
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Jamie
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#107
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#107
(Original post by foolfarian)
An Italian photographer was killed by Israeli machine-gun fire in fierce fighting in central Ramallah yesterday. He was the first foreign journalist to be killed in the 18 months of the Palestinian uprising.
A French photographer was injured by shrapnel yesterday and an Egyptian cameraman was hit when Israeli troops shot at his car - which was marked with TV signs - but the bullets were stopped by his flak jacket.

Raffaele Ciriello, 42, a veteran of the conflicts in Afghanistan and Kosovo working for Corriere della Sera, was inching his way around the lanes off Manara Square, the scene of heavy gunbattles between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian militants for much of the day.

Italian journalists in the area said a tank opened fire when he pulled out a small video camera. He was taken to hospital almost immediately but died soon afterwards.

The Israeli army said the source of the fire was uncertain and it was investigating.

The Italian foreign ministry asked the Israeli ambassador for a full explanation.

The International Press Institute said the shooting seemed to be "part of a concerted strategy by the Israeli army to control reports on the recent surge in armed hostilities in the region".

At least 40 foreign journalists have been shot by Israeli live or rubber bullets during the uprising, according to Reporters Without Borders.

J
"Israel to take all Ethiopian Jews
Ethiopian Jews were airlifted to Israel in 1991
The Israeli Government are to start moving more than 18,000 Ethiopian Jews to the Middle East, says Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom"

Wonder why palestinians are pissed off? All these zionists flooding into the country need land and houses. And at whoms expense...
J
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Tina
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#108
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#108
(Original post by Eggy Hog)
Do you know how hard it is for a tank moving at speed to stop?
feeble
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Jamie
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#109
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#109
(Original post by Jonatan)
The idea of democracy is that the population shall have a chance to vote down a crude ruler and so avoid a totalitarian dictatorship. This is why presidents are chosed based on popularity and not academic qualifications.
See, academic qualifications aren't necessary, but common sense is.
Besides, the presidency has 2 candidates, and these are chosen by the partys, or rather the influential members therein.
J
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Eggy Hog
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#110
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#110
(Original post by Tina)
feeble
not really. People run over by cars aren't murdered are they?
Anyway, I don't know enough about that women's case to pass a serious judgement
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Tina
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#111
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#111
(Original post by Eggy Hog)
not really. People run over by cars aren't murdered are they?
Anyway, I don't know enough about that women's case to pass a serious judgement

im trying to find the article
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JaF
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#112
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#112
(Original post by foolfarian)
The idea of democracy is that the best man/woman for the job gets in. So in a country of over 250 million people, what are the odds that both father and son were the best for the job? Not high
J
Oh, yeah thats right they put all the names in a hat and pick out a winner. Who cares about chances? Out of those 250,000,000 people I wonder what percentage would actually:

a) Be able to become president (eg minors)
b) Want to become president
c) Make a better President than Bush

Perhaps the american democratic system is flawed, but its just as flawed as any other system.
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Tina
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#113
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#113
from robert fisk, the independent

"In the present conflict, the Israeli Army's use of the "closed military area", which bans journalists from any district where Israeli soldiers are misbehaving or killing the innocent, has dissuaded many reporters from entering the newly-occupied Palestinian cities."
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Tina
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#114
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#114
from the bbc - an account by a red cross worker

Right to protection

The emblem of the Red Cross and the... Red Crescent are protecting emblems meaning that those workers who are wearing the emblems on their uniform or the ambulances themselves are protected and they should not be hit and they should not be hindered in their work.

We had one incident coming out of Nablus the other day when our team of ICRC delegates had gone up to deliver tents, blankets, jerry cans, household goods for families whose houses had been destroyed in the incursion in Nablus.

The lorry had been unloaded and the following day was coming back again with the land crews in front and the lorry behind.

The land cruiser and lorry were stopped at a checkpoint, the delegates and the field officer were asked to get out by the soldiers, they were made to strip to their underwear, take off their Red Cross emblems and stand while the cars were searched.

Now this is, of course, a breach of international humanitarian law but it is something that the Israelis carry out to humiliate humanitarian workers whilst carrying out their work and really totally unnecessary in this context where people are trying to do a humanitarian mission.

Palestinian Red Crescent Society staff and volunteers were working the same day in Jenin, looking after the women and children who were at that moment flooding out of the camp trying to give them food and water.

Six colleagues were asked to strip, one of whom was a woman.

They were then arrested and three of them only later released.
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Alaric
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#115
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#115
What annoys me is that when a suicide bomber attacks soldiers but also kills civilians in the process he's apparently targeted the civilians, but when Israel attacks the civilians get in the 'crossfire'.

What also annoys me that the fence is not only in direct contravention of a UN resolution, but also that while they enclose and treat the Palestinians like animals (that is what it sounds like to fence someone in) they continue attacks from the air. Personally I'm of the opinion that any country that uses helicopter gunships for 'precision' attacks in built up civilian areas has an inherent racism. How is that much different from the idea of infiltration of suicide bombers - given the people that are hurt are usual civilians in both cases.

Another thing that annoys me is the concept of Palestinians hiding 'their' terrorists. Indeed the Israelis obviously hide their soldiers too. It's called living there.

And the last point for now, with regard to the wall, Israel has a barrier between the west bank and Egypt and putting a wall around the rest does enclose its land borders.

Alaric.
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Tina
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#116
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#116
i think thats enough evidence!
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Eggy Hog
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#117
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#117
(Original post by Tina)
from robert fisk, the independent

"In the present conflict, the Israeli Army's use of the "closed military area", which bans journalists from any district where Israeli soldiers are misbehaving or killing the innocent, has dissuaded many reporters from entering the newly-occupied Palestinian cities."
That sounds like a very opinionated argument. Jut because Mr. Robert Fisk says it happens doesn't mean its true.
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Tina
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#118
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#118
i think alaric is saying this for good reason...not just to be "hip"
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Tina
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#119
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#119
(Original post by Eggy Hog)
That sounds like a very opinionated argument. Jut because Mr. Robert Fisk says it happens doesn't mean its true.
considering he has first hand experience and its from the Independent its fairly reliable
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Alaric
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#120
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#120
(Original post by Eggy Hog)
not really. People run over by cars aren't murdered are they?
They are if there is intent.
They aren't if it was accidental.

Tanks shouldn't be going very fast if there are civilians around. Simple as that.

Alaric.
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