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JSM
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#21
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#21
(Original post by aliel)
I think in most peoples books, 100 grand is a hell of a lot of money. I do not agree with taxing 40% to all those over (* i think it's 33-5 grand or something)! Why should someone earning 100,000 grand get taxed at the same rate than someone earning *33-35* grand. I think the tax rate should be even more progressive!
but that is not fair, they will probably get even less out of society than those who pay less in.
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JSM
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#22
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#22
(Original post by llama boy)
tough, you're going to get one.

a few gems of "the market"....



oh, and the US, being the closest this world has to a free market system has...



so glad it works so well! :rolleyes:
oh yeah and the countries that are in economic troubles and are spoiling the euro for the rest of the european countries, have awesome job security and pension plans but they are losing growth and therefore will soon start having unemployment. Plus socialsim leads to totalitarianism e.g. Communism, Nazis
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llama boy
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#23
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#23
(Original post by kildare)
You're an anarcho-communist though aren't you? The chances of you finding a "real alternative" which is actually electable are to be fair, quite slim
hahaha yeah.

the myths of electoral politics still need to be debunked, though.
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TK
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#24
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#24
what are their main policies?
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Juwel
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#25
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#25
The market makes more efficient use of an economy's resources than a planned (or communist style) economy. It can tell what people want quicker and response to these demands quicker. That's the whole point of an economy, to distribute resources that make the products the economy demands.

I'm hungry.
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aliel
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#26
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#26
(Original post by JSM)
but that is not fair, they will probably get even less out of society than those who pay less in.

The indirect tax system (VAT etc) is extremely regressive. So here, the burden lies on the poorer members of society and is where most of the gov's funds come from.
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kildare
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#27
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#27
(Original post by JSM)
but that is not fair, they will probably get even less out of society than those who pay less in.
Why?
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kildare
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#28
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#28
(Original post by JSM)
. Plus socialsim leads to totalitarianism e.g. Communism, Nazis
You can't make blanket statements based on a couple of occurences in the past. History doesn't provide us with universal laws. Most people are also arguing for market based socialism, which is totally different to Marxist ideology of the Soviet Union.
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aliel
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#29
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#29
(Original post by JSM)
but that is not fair, they will probably get even less out of society than those who pay less in.

What you are doing is putting a monetary value on an individual's head as indication of their worth...many people work in lower-income occupations which our society NEEDS more than some members who decide to follow the £s. For example, the UK needs more students to consider teaching. However, teachers do not earn an amazingly high wage, for our economy to grow..we need educators. Why should they be taxed at the same rate at an investment banker?
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llama boy
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#30
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#30
(Original post by JSM)
oh yeah and the countries that are in economic troubles and are spoiling the euro for the rest of the european countries, have awesome job security and pension plans but they are losing growth and therefore will soon start having unemployment.
it is certainly true that the current globalised system doesn't allow for govts to apply any sort of serious labour / environmental laws without a huge flight of business to other countries. Worry not, I have plans for this too!


Plus socialsim leads to totalitarianism e.g. Communism, Nazis
Lazy statement, that. I could debate this all night, but i'm not going to. I will say one thing, though. The US, in its current state of control-by-business... exactly how far does that have to go before it doesn't count as democracy?

TBH, I'm not going to get into defending any current regime. i'm not defending the US, i'm not defending China, I'm certainly not defending North Korea etc.

What I am saying is that there has to be a better way than all of them.
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JSM
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Tinykates)
what are their main policies?
look a apge earlier i showed some of them
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JSM
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#32
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#32
(Original post by aliel)
The indirect tax system (VAT etc) is extremely regressive. So here, the burden lies on the poorer members of society and is where most of the gov's funds come from.
everyone pays 17.5%, i think thats fair, but then i though t that the idea of hte poll tax is fair because everyone pays the same.
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kildare
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#33
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#33
(Original post by llama boy)
it is certainly true that the current globalised system doesn't allow for govts to apply any sort of serious labour / environmental laws without a huge flight of business to other countries. Worry not, I have plans for this too!
Surely minimum GLOBAL labour/enviromental laws would be one way to solve this problem, what's your "plan"?
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a_musical_guy
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#34
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#34
I like the Liberal Democraps, I just don't like Charles Kennedy.
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JSM
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#35
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#35
why - because richer people tend to pay twice for everything, education, healthcare, dotn get unempoyed, therefore do not get anything out and remove their burden off the state.
(Original post by kildare)
You can't make blanket statements based on a couple of occurences in the past. History doesn't provide us with universal laws. Most people are also arguing for market based socialism, which is totally different to Marxist ideology of the Soviet Union.
market based socialism does not work - the servile state, i am not talking about marxist ideology, i am talking about planning which you need in a socialist state which leads to totalitariansim - George Orwell styley
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llama boy
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#36
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#36
(Original post by ZJuwelH)
The market makes more efficient use of an economy's resources than a planned (or communist style) economy. It can tell what people want quicker and response to these demands quicker. That's the whole point of an economy, to distribute resources that make the products the economy demands.

I'm hungry.
Perhaps there is more choice than just the two you mention.

Market based socialism (ie workers owning the companies they work for) isn't something i support, but provides an example that seems to give the best from both worlds.
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kildare
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#37
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#37
(Original post by JSM)
everyone pays 17.5%, i think thats fair, but then i though t that the idea of hte poll tax is fair because everyone pays the same.
What about some people's inherent advantages? What about people who do vital jobs, which have an enourmous social benefit but which aren't paid as well? What about the law of diminishing returns (i.e how much difference an extra $10,000 means to someone)?
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JSM
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#38
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#38
(Original post by aliel)
What you are doing is putting a monetary value on an individual's head as indication of their worth...many people work in lower-income occupations which our society NEEDS more than some members who decide to follow the £s. For example, the UK needs more students to consider teaching. However, teachers do not earn an amazingly high wage, for our economy to grow..we need educators. Why should they be taxed at the same rate at an investment banker?
because an investment banker already pays more money into the state because it is a percentage so effectively they are paying twice over. Well if everyone followed the money, supply and demand would mean a teacher shortage causes more people to follow teaching unless you are in a welfare state. Welfare capitalism cannot work
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aliel
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#39
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#39
(Original post by JSM)
everyone pays 17.5%, i think thats fair, but then i though t that the idea of hte poll tax is fair because everyone pays the same.
mhmhmhm LOL No. It was not fair. The poll tax affair caused Thatcher so much trouble, the whole country was disgusted. Even few die-hard conservatives would even bother to try and defend the tax.
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kildare
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#40
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#40
(Original post by JSM)
market based socialism does not work - the servile state, i am not talking about marxist ideology, i am talking about planning which you need in a socialist state which leads to totalitariansim - George Orwell styley
Show me one example of market based socialism directly leading to totalitarianism?
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