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JSM
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#121
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#121
(Original post by kildare)
Average income in the U.K has indeed increased throughout history, I don't see why this nessecairly means "conservative economics" "work" or any better than other economic systems though.
so it is all inflation then, well if people can afford their own health care then they are obviously doing relatively well and if they are doing relatively well it means that there are successful economic policies (as they are not harming the doing well factor)
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llama boy
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#122
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#122
(Original post by JSM)
how
abolish the state. have a co-operative society.

nurse!
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kildare
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#123
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#123
(Original post by llama boy)
yeah, and go get a job you dirty anarchist!
I believe I must first get as good an education as possible in order to help me before I embark on my quest for worldwide social justice
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JSM
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#124
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#124
(Original post by llama boy)
abolish the state. have a co-operative society.

nurse!
well i for one would take advantage of that and hoard as much as i could get hold of
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aliel
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#125
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#125
(Original post by JSM)
well you obviously needed my age to judge my experiance of the world and therefore whether i would know enough to comment. How old are you? although you have pointedly ignored this. Fortunate not to have to deal with extreme examples of poverty, if i was there i would take full advantage of what the state offers and get the hell out of absolute poverty. However, i would claim very few, in none at all in britain are in absolute poverty. It is easy to argue that those who earn more should be taxed more, its even esaier to attack a system and not defend what you would propose in its palce.

You are rather amusing. I asked your age, because i was wondering why you weren't too sure about some of the economic theories. I presumed if you were studying them at A level, A2 level rather, you would be more clued-up. But as you are only 16, i don't find it pressing to highlight the deficiencies.

You presume that if you were in their "situation", you would "take full advantage of what the state offers and get the hell out of absolute poverty". Well it's not that easy. I am sure, on reflection you would retract from this statement. Those in poverty, tend to live in areas that only extreme dedication and motivation could make a difference.

You seem to bounce from one argument to another, i do not see why you aimed this statement to me..:"its even esaier to attack a system and not defend what you would propose in its place".
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llama boy
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#126
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#126
(Original post by JSM)
there is equality of opportunity (legally) at the moment so what equality do you want.
i've heard it called "equality of unequals" or "equality of conditions".

"once equality has triumphed and is well established, will various individuals' abilities and their levels of energy cease to differ? Some will exist, perhaps not so many as now, but certainly some will always exist. It is proverbial that the same tree never bears two identical leaves, and this will probably be always be true. And it is even more truer with regard to human beings, who are much more complex than leaves. But this diversity is hardly an evil. On the contrary. . . it is a resource of the human race. Thanks to this diversity, humanity is a collective whole in which the one individual complements all the others and needs them. As a result, this infinite diversity of human individuals is the fundamental cause and the very basis of their solidarity. It is all-powerful argument for equality." - Bakunin
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kildare
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#127
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#127
(Original post by JSM)
so it is all inflation then, well if people can afford their own health care then they are obviously doing relatively well and if they are doing relatively well it means that there are successful economic policies (as they are not harming the doing well factor)
Yes, some people are indeed doing quite well. Doesn't mean there aren't better policies available.
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aliel
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#128
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#128
Oh you must watch "Johnny Q". All of you.
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kildare
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#129
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#129
(Original post by aliel)
Oh you must watch "Johnny Q". All of you.
Sorry?
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JSM
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#130
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#130
(Original post by aliel)
You are rather amusing. I asked your age, because i was wondering why you weren't too sure about some of the economic theories. I presumed if you were studying them at A level, A2 level rather, you would be more clued-up. But as you are only 16, i don't find it pressing to highlight the deficiencies.

You presume that if you were in their "situation", you would "take full advantage of what the state offers and get the hell out of absolute poverty". Well it's not that easy. I am sure, on reflection you would retract from this statement. Those in poverty, tend to live in areas that only extreme dedication and motivation could make a difference.

You seem to bounce from one argument to another, i do not see why you aimed this statement to me..:"its even esaier to attack a system and not defend what you would propose in its place".
im glad i amuse you. And you are still avoiding the subject of your age. What economic theories wasn't i sure about. I am studying AS level, what deficiencies was i suggesting. Please highlight.

I have extreme dedication and motivation, look at how i respond to everyone on this thread. I would do anything to get out of that situation. Personally i believe charity is private not state functioned and i am sure that when i earn a lot of money i will help those in need. I would just rather choose what my money goes to than have the government allocate it.

Im confused about what exactly you are all trying to suggest and the last statement was aimed at everyone posting. On the subject what would you propose instead of Thatcherism.
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llama boy
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#131
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#131
(Original post by JSM)
well i for one would take advantage of that and hoard as much as i could get hold of
sorry, did i miss a bit out? you'd have been shot in the revolution.

seriously, though, if a society was based on co-operation, and you were born and raised in it, not only would it not be right for you to hoard, compete etc, it wouldn't be in your interests either.
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JSM
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#132
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#132
(Original post by llama boy)
i've heard it called "equality of unequals" or "equality of conditions".

"once equality has triumphed and is well established, will various individuals' abilities and their levels of energy cease to differ? Some will exist, perhaps not so many as now, but certainly some will always exist. It is proverbial that the same tree never bears two identical leaves, and this will probably be always be true. And it is even more truer with regard to human beings, who are much more complex than leaves. But this diversity is hardly an evil. On the contrary. . . it is a resource of the human race. Thanks to this diversity, humanity is a collective whole in which the one individual complements all the others and needs them. As a result, this infinite diversity of human individuals is the fundamental cause and the very basis of their solidarity. It is all-powerful argument for equality." - Bakunin
no it is not, so we are all different, but all the same(humans), well done. What equality do you want then?
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JSM
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#133
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#133
(Original post by llama boy)
sorry, did i miss a bit out? you'd have been shot in the revolution.

seriously, though, if a society was based on co-operation, and you were born and raised in it, not only would it not be right for you to hoard, compete etc, it wouldn't be in your interests either.
yeah in an ideal world, but how are you going to get to that stage unless you have a nuclear war or without violent revolution.
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llama boy
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#134
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#134
(Original post by JSM)
Personally i believe charity is private not state functioned and i am sure that when i earn a lot of money i will help those in need. I would just rather choose what my money goes to than have the government allocate it.
What you fail to mention is that the money that you claim you will "give back" will have come entirely from your exploitation of the surplus value of the labour of the people you are claiming you want to help!
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aliel
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#135
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#135
(Original post by kildare)
Sorry?

It's a film. It's really good. Highlights the major problems with the US private healthcare system. And how over 40 million people are not insured. Moreover, how the insurance companies dodge claims. It's about a guy (Denzel Washington) who is a factory worker, his wife works in a grocery store. He has been paying insurance at work, (it is automatically deducted every month from his paycheck). His son needs a heart transplant, but the company changed his policy without informing him. He needs $250,000 to pay for his son's operation. The insurance company will only give him $20,000.
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llama boy
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#136
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#136
(Original post by JSM)
yeah in an ideal world, but how are you going to get to that stage unless you have a nuclear war or without violent revolution.
its a fair point.

besides, revolutions aren't all bad...
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JSM
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#137
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#137
(Original post by llama boy)
What you fail to mention is that the money that you claim you will "give back" will have come entirely from your exploitation of the surplus value of the labour of the people you are claiming you want to help!
i wont exploit anyone as i will be an investment banker/ lawyer and therefore a completely voluntary service, people will give me money for doing something for them and outsmarting other people. Not by exploiting anyone.
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JSM
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#138
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#138
(Original post by llama boy)
its a fair point.

besides, revolutions aren't all bad...
id agree, as long as i get power id b happy to share in the revolution
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JSM
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#139
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#139
(Original post by aliel)
It's a film. It's really good. Highlights the major problems with the US private healthcare system. And how over 40 million people are not insured. Moreover, how the insurance companies dodge claims. It's about a guy (Denzel Washington) who is a factory worker, his wife works in a grocery store. He has been paying insurance at work, (it is automatically deducted every month from his paycheck). His son needs a heart transplant, but the company changed his policy without informing him. He needs $250,000 to pay for his son's operation. The insurance company will only give him $20,000.
sad, but you cant give everyone what they need
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llama boy
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#140
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#140
(Original post by JSM)
i wont exploit anyone as i will be an investment banker/ lawyer and therefore a completely voluntary service, people will give me money for doing something for them and outsmarting other people. Not by exploiting anyone.
Let me explain. Investment bankers tend to work as follows...

Put money in. Get workers to labour for less than the actual value of said labour. Take surplus (ie profit).

That is the exploitation.
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