Equality of opportunity – unless you're one of the middle classes

What do you mean? I think the current system is fairer than the proposed system for 2006. I just think the government are medeling too much with this new system. Its almost getting like a dictatorship. There is too much of this get working class into uni crap.

I am stuck in the middle of the two classes, I was put up in a middle class background but not with middle class money if that makes any sense? My dads always had so called middle class jobs (he was a senior libararian and now he runs a small business). We have never had much money though. So I am kind of a like a middle class student on a working class budget.

From my point of view labours policies just don't seem to make sense.

do your parents need their car? What size house do they have? Questions like this mean that maybe they are choosign to prioritise the (little?) money that they do have for other things.

who say what exactly? that, no shit, capitalist society means some are better off than others?

Some are better off than others, yup, but when the ones who will apparently be suffering are the middle classes look at you roar! Funny.

no. as the rather simple title suggests. its all under the banner of equality when it is clearly not. if the lower classes are worse off its inequality. when the middle classes are worse off its equality and fair game. not hard to see the problem there...

They live in a 3 bed terrace (ok in a good area and its worth quite a bit of money) but why should they have to move just to pay for education? They need a car because my dad needs it for his job as a self employed carpet cleaner. The car is a N reg escort so its hardly over the top.

Never said there was a problem.
However, it amuses me that on the one hand you're calmly accepting that in a capitalist society some will do better than others (and if I'm not mistaken you do support a capitalist system, yes- correct me if I'm wrong). Yet when those who will apparently do better than others are from your social class, all hell breaks loose. I'm amused. Do carry on.

no what she is saying and what i would agree with is that capitalism is unequal - fair enough, it is unequal when it is as pure capitalism but it is viewed as equal when it is unequal due to legal and social discrimination.

All this talk of 'middle class', what are the likely salaries of parents in a MC family?

Well, since you have to pay full fees as soon as your parents jointly earn over £20,000, I guess the government takes anything over that to be middle class.

My parents saved for years to put me through school. Now they have to pay to put me through university and to put my brother through, which will cost them even more. My dad doesn't know if he'll ever be able to afford to retire. They're from a working class background, they had NOTHING and they've worked so, so hard to earn their money. And suddenly they're middle class scum and their kids don't deserve any help. It just seems really unfair to me.

I'm not disputing that capitalism does not provide an equal society- no s**t sherlock! But like I said, its very interesting to me that there is all this palarver when its the middle classes who might not be doing so well for a change. I suppose though there's some inevitability to people looking out for their own group above others, but that doesnt make it any less amusing to observe- an unequal society being all very well until you might be one of the ones who suffers from it!

JSM: Explain why you think it's wrong to suggest that everyone has the right to an education?

Well, since you have to pay full fees as soon as your parents jointly earn over £20,000, I guess the government takes anything over that to be middle class.

My parents saved for years to put me through school. Now they have to pay to put me through university and to put my brother through, which will cost them even more. My dad doesn't know if he'll ever be able to afford to retire. They're from a working class background, they had NOTHING and they've worked so, so hard to earn their money. And suddenly they're middle class scum and their kids don't deserve any help. It just seems really unfair to me.

i asked why should everyone have the right to an edducation, why not jsut stick w/c people in apprenticeships. its a theory

We could just shoot them. That's a theory too......

Well, since you have to pay full fees as soon as your parents jointly earn over £20,000, I guess the government takes anything over that to be middle class.

My parents saved for years to put me through school. Now they have to pay to put me through university and to put my brother through, which will cost them even more. My dad doesn't know if he'll ever be able to afford to retire. They're from a working class background, they had NOTHING and they've worked so, so hard to earn their money. And suddenly they're middle class scum and their kids don't deserve any help. It just seems really unfair to me.

i was in a similar situation, except there are five of us.

Ouch!