Equality of opportunity – unless you're one of the middle classes Watch

This discussion is closed.
Tek
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#81
Report 16 years ago
#81
(Original post by kildare)
JSM: Explain why you think it's wrong to suggest that everyone has the right to an education?
Everyone has the right to an education. In an advanced society, the level to which everyone has a right to be educated should be extended to degree level. Because it's society who benefits from graduates (be they Doctors, teachers or lawyers) it is society who should pay.

Students should therefore pay exactly £0 for their University education, regardless of class.
0
happysunshine
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#82
Report 16 years ago
#82
(Original post by Tek)
Students should therefore pay exactly £0 for their University education, regardless of class.
Would that be possible to see in the future? If so what sacrifices would the government have to make in order to give students a free university education?
0
Vienna
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#83
Report Thread starter 16 years ago
#83
(Original post by lala)
Never said there was a problem.
However, it amuses me that on the one hand you're calmly accepting that in a capitalist society some will do better than others (and if I'm not mistaken you do support a capitalist system, yes- correct me if I'm wrong). Yet when those who will apparently do better than others are from your social class, all hell breaks loose. I'm amused. Do carry on.
all hell breaks loose because inequality to one group is treated differently to inequality towards another. if you read my posts you'll see that i dont have a problem with inequality, just the way it is treated. dont try and pin some 'rich middle class hypocritic' jibe on me.
0
Vienna
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#84
Report Thread starter 16 years ago
#84
(Original post by happysunshine)
Would that be possible to see in the future? If so what sacrifices would the government have to make in order to give students a free university education?
only those who benefit from a university education should go. that means going back to real vocational courses and vocational institutions.
0
Tek
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#85
Report 16 years ago
#85
(Original post by happysunshine)
If so what sacrifices would the government have to make in order to give students a free university education?
Umm, not waste money trying to find weapons that don't exist in Iraq?
Or raise taxes?
Or cut back on mickey mouse subjects (which let's face it, are pretty useless to all concerned)?
0
kildare
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#86
Report 16 years ago
#86
(Original post by Tek)
Everyone has the right to an education. In an advanced society, the level to which everyone has a right to be educated should be extended to degree level. Because it's society who benefits from graduates (be they Doctors, teachers or lawyers) it is society who should pay.

Students should therefore pay exactly £0 for their University education, regardless of class.
But students reap a private benefit from attending university as well. Shouldn't they therefore be expected to make a private contribution?
0
happysunshine
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#87
Report 16 years ago
#87
(Original post by vienna95)
only those who benefit from a university education should go. that means going back to real vocational courses and vocational institutions.
Wont vocational courses cost money too?
0
Vienna
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#88
Report Thread starter 16 years ago
#88
(Original post by happysunshine)
Wont vocational courses cost money too?
of course. but the upkeep of university status is far more expensive.
and of course, a large proportion of students would not enter education at all.
0
viviki
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#89
Report 16 years ago
#89
Going back to the Mickey Mouse course point.

Look at these entry requirements. These are all for media courses I just ran a search on UCAS.

Coventry university- CC no specified subjects

University of East London- 12 points thats 3 Ds isnt it.

University of Gloucestershire - 12 points again

London metropolitan University- 140 points

Luton - 160 points from 3 subjects

University of Teeside -140 points

Places for all of these courses are bound to be available through clearing so you could probably get a place somewhere with Es. A friend of mine got a place through clearing for 2 Es a few years ago.
Obviously your average employer is going to know the difference between a degree from Oxford and a degree from the university of Teeside (no offense intended to anyone who goes there) but would they recognise the difference between Teeside ranked 92 and and Sussex ranked 25 but obviously not as well known for academic excellence as Oxford.

The governments policy of getting over 50% of people into higher education I realise isnt just degrees but it will lead to there being extra places on courses and I believe it will devalue degrees and add to student debt more and more people are doing masters degrees because so many people are taking undergrad courses and this leads to debt increasing and people not having the capacity to even begin to paying off that debt until they are 25+, probably not paying off the debt until they are mid 30s+ and therefore not feeling financially able to settle down eg. get a mortgage start a family.
0
JSM
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#90
Report 16 years ago
#90
(Original post by Tek)
Everyone has the right to an education. In an advanced society, the level to which everyone has a right to be educated should be extended to degree level. Because it's society who benefits from graduates (be they Doctors, teachers or lawyers) it is society who should pay.

Students should therefore pay exactly £0 for their University education, regardless of class.
so society benefits from lawyers does it, apart from litigation what exaclty do lawyers produce. And no i would disagree, on what basis does everyone have the right to an education. I would say everyone has the right to their life, extended with help for basic needs, food, clothing and a roof. Why should society have education, what arguments are there to say that everyone should reicieve education. So you would put entrance to universities on strictly meritocracy, not effort or money or schooling, in which case you wouldn't be able to go to cambridge.
0
Mark_KK
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#91
Report 16 years ago
#91
I will sum up the whole problem over tuition fees in three paragraphs:

The Labour government wants more people to go onto "higher education". To most people this means going to University. Alot of people out there are not really university material and thus the governement has basically created a series of lesser institutes offering courses that are of no or little actual value just so someone can claim to have gone to university.

As a result of the above we have a situation where pretty much anyone can go to university regardless of their academic ability or willingness to study. The minimum entry requirements at some places make a mockery of the system and devalue the overall prestige of having a degree, indeed many courses out there are regarded as not being worth taking.

As a result of more people going on to higher education universities are having to find more funding to offer teaching / improve facilities. The most logical and fair way to do this is through charging the people who benefit most from the whole university experience, the student.

-------------------------------------------------

I think that the solution to the whole problem is obvious, I wonder if anyone can guess what it is???
0
Vienna
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#92
Report Thread starter 16 years ago
#92
(Original post by kildare)
But students reap a private benefit from attending university as well. Shouldn't they therefore be expected to make a private contribution?
the benefit to society of having an educated workforce is universal.
0
viviki
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#93
Report 16 years ago
#93
(Original post by vienna95)
only those who benefit from a university education should go. that means going back to real vocational courses and vocational institutions.
I completely agree.
0
kildare
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#94
Report 16 years ago
#94
(Original post by JSM)
. Why should society have education, what arguments are there to say that everyone should reicieve education. So you would put entrance to universities on strictly meritocracy, not effort or money or schooling, in which case you wouldn't be able to go to cambridge.
Eh?
0
JSM
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#95
Report 16 years ago
#95
(Original post by vienna95)
the benefit to society of having an educated workforce is universal.
no, what good does an educated dustbin man/ cleaner make?
0
happysunshine
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#96
Report 16 years ago
#96
(Original post by JSM)
no, what good does an educated dustbin man/ cleaner make?
It's unlikely that a dusbin man is educated.
0
Tek
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#97
Report 16 years ago
#97
(Original post by foolfarian)
The solution is to stop Darren, Gary, Tracey and Sharon who are doing a 3 year course in media studies at Scarborough University (minimum entry EE, average entry EE) from going to university.
(I'm fully against the drive to get everyone through university without taking mickey mouse courses into account)
J
0
kildare
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#98
Report 16 years ago
#98
(Original post by vienna95)
the benefit to society of having an educated workforce is universal.
Oh I agree, which is why I think university education should be heavily subsidised. I don't think the idea that students who will ultimately reap the benefit of their education should be expected a small contribution is an incredibly radical one though.
0
Mark_KK
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#99
Report 16 years ago
#99
Someone asked what good do Lawyers do society. In response two words: Income Tax.
0
JSM
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#100
Report 16 years ago
#100
(Original post by happysunshine)
It's unlikely that a dusbin man is educated.
well he will nominally have had an education, ie been paid to stay on to sixth form and college, bullied his teachers (so they sue and get paid by the government in huge settlements), destructed school property so that the government replaces it with brand new stuff or neglects the whole school. Disuades academic children from following hteir education. In theory, he was meant to get an education but didnt.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Has your university offer been reduced?

Yes (8)
28.57%
No (17)
60.71%
Don't know (3)
10.71%

Watched Threads

View All