Equality of opportunity – unless you're one of the middle classes Watch

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Vienna
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#101
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#101
(Original post by JSM)
no, what good does an educated dustbin man/ cleaner make?
you quite right to expect me to clarify that. i meant, those having received a university education are beneficial to society as a whole and higher education favours us all not just the individual. as are those who received vocational education and training.
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JSM
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#102
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#102
(Original post by Mark_KK)
Someone asked what good do Lawyers do society. In response two words: Income Tax.
so actually no good at all to society. Good - i want to be one and sue the government for taking income tax off me, even better be resident elsewhere so i dont pay tax (like airline pilots).
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happysunshine
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#103
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#103
(Original post by JSM)
well he will nominally have had an education, ie been paid to stay on to sixth form and college, bullied his teachers (so they sue and get paid by the government in huge settlements), destructed school property so that the government replaces it with brand new stuff or neglects the whole school. Disuades academic children from following hteir education. In theory, he was meant to get an education but didnt.
I meant HE.
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Tek
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#104
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#104
(Original post by JSM)
so society benefits from lawyers does it, apart from litigation what exaclty do lawyers produce. And no i would disagree, on what basis does everyone have the right to an education. I would say everyone has the right to their life, extended with help for basic needs, food, clothing and a roof. Why should society have education, what arguments are there to say that everyone should reicieve education. So you would put entrance to universities on strictly meritocracy, not effort or money or schooling, in which case you wouldn't be able to go to cambridge.
A) More developed countries such as the UK need a highly trained workforce to compete economically with other developed countries. So we should extend the core, or free, level of education to encompass University graduates.
Note that "highly trained workforce" does not include Gary with his 3rd Class "Degree" in Furniture Textile Design from East London.
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JSM
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#105
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#105
(Original post by vienna95)
you quite right to expect me to clarify that. i meant, those having received a university education are beneficial to society as a whole and higher education favours us all not just the individual. as are those who received vocational education and training.
higher education, but to some people (fans of reality tv shows) an education is not going to be worth anything and will therefore be wasted money. They will end up doing something for which they do not even need decent standards of literacy. We need our cleaners, dustbin men and fast food shop workers. Although what i found interesting is that we have had a minimum wage since 1909 in sweatshop industries.
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kildare
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#106
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#106
(Original post by JSM)
even better be resident elsewhere so i dont pay tax .
Despite the fact that the country have provided you with the free education, healthcare and other public services which have put you in that posistion?
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JSM
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#107
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#107
(Original post by Tek)
A) More developed countries such as the UK need a highly trained workforce to compete economically with other developed countries. So we should extend the core, or free, level of education to encompass University graduates.
Note that "highly trained workforce" does not include Gary with his 3rd Class "Degree" in Furniture Textile Design from East London.
no we don't china competes economically, alright bad example because of rising standards now that they have opened up to the west and because of cultural differences which encourage hard work. So where do you propose we fund this, isnt this a perk to the rich (or already successful), that you tek as a socialist should argue about
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JSM
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#108
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#108
(Original post by kildare)
Despite the fact that the country have provided you with the free education, healthcare and other public services which have put you in that posistion?
well i have not used any of their services, in fact i have paid twice, once by not using my state education, nhs etc. (turned down st olave's). What public services have put me in my position except the hard graft of my parents.
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kildare
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#109
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#109
(Original post by JSM)
. We need our cleaners, dustbin men and fast food shop workers.
Best not to educate them then, in case they develop higher aspirations.
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Tek
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#110
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#110
(Original post by JSM)
So where do you propose we fund this
By GETTING RID OF MICKEY MOUSE COURSES! Keep up.
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kildare
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#111
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#111
(Original post by JSM)
well i have not used any of their services, in fact i have paid twice, once by not using my state education, nhs etc. (turned down st olave's). What public services have put me in my position except the hard graft of my parents.
Have you ever used the roads or the libraries? What aout the children's allowance that your parents have been receiving since the day of your birth?
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JSM
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#112
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#112
(Original post by kildare)
Best not to educate them then, in case they develop higher aspirations.
no, its jsut these careers do not need the education that htye have ben given. We need healthiy immigration and a decent black labour market.
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JSM
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#113
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#113
(Original post by kildare)
Have you ever used the roads or the libraries? What aout the children's allowance that your parents have been receiving since the day of your birth?
roads? isnt that what road tax is for, libraries - council tax (and no, never in my life). Chiuldren's allowance, what about the huge amounts of VAT my parents pay on my food, clothing (now that i am bigger), petrol, and the money i spend on booze and used to on cigarettes. I think that is more than balanced out.
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kildare
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#114
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#114
(Original post by JSM)
no, its jsut these careers do not need the education that htye have ben given. We need healthiy immigration and a decent black labour market.
So at what age should the government decide "well you're going to flip burgers for the rest of your life so we're going to stop educating you"?
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JSM
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#115
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#115
(Original post by Tek)
By GETTING RID OF MICKEY MOUSE COURSES! Keep up.
as i said before

So you would put entrance to universities on strictly meritocracy, not effort or money or schooling, in which case you wouldn't be able to go to cambridge.
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kildare
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#116
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#116
(Original post by JSM)
roads? isnt that what road tax is for, libraries - council tax (and no, never in my life). Chiuldren's allowance, what about the huge amounts of VAT my parents pay on my food, clothing (now that i am bigger), petrol, and the money i spend on booze and used to on cigarettes. I think that is more than balanced out.
Have you ever paid a penny of tax (excluding VAT) in your life?
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kildare
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#117
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#117
(Original post by JSM)
as i said before

So you would put entrance to universities on strictly meritocracy, not effort or money or schooling, in which case you wouldn't be able to go to cambridge.
Again I'll say

what on earth are you talking about?
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viviki
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#118
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#118
(Original post by Tek)
By GETTING RID OF MICKEY MOUSE COURSES! Keep up.
The problem with that is that the universities are now businesses within themselves getting rid of mickey mouse courses would lead to job losses.
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Mark_KK
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#119
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#119
(Original post by JSM)
so actually no good at all to society. Good - i want to be one and sue the government for taking income tax off me, even better be resident elsewhere so i dont pay tax (like airline pilots).
Yes but the tax is used to spend on public services.

On the subject of airline pilots I know a guy who is moving to Capetown but files out of Heathrow. Is he a candidate for the longest commute in the world?
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Mark_KK
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#120
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#120
(Original post by viviki)
The problem with that is that the universities are now businesses within themselves getting rid of mickey mouse courses would lead to job losses.
I was thinking about the implications of getting rid of come courses / institutions and came up with the same dilemma!
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