Equality of opportunity – unless you're one of the middle classes

Watch
This discussion is closed.
JSM
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#121
Report 16 years ago
#121
(Original post by kildare)
Have you ever paid a penny of tax (excluding VAT) in your life?
every time i buy booze or cigarettes
0
Tek
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#122
Report 16 years ago
#122
(Original post by viviki)
The problem with that is that the universities are now businesses within themselves getting rid of mickey mouse courses would lead to job losses.
Why should a middle class medicine graduate (a useful, needed Doctor for Britain's failing NHS) leave with debts in excess of £35000 just so that Garry with EE at A Level can graduate in Communication Studies from Paisley??
0
kildare
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#123
Report 16 years ago
#123
(Original post by JSM)
every time i buy booze or cigarettes
EXCLUDING VAT
0
Tek
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#124
Report 16 years ago
#124
(Original post by kildare)
EXCLUDING VAT
Haha, was just going to say that.
0
viviki
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#125
Report 16 years ago
#125
(Original post by Tek)
Why should a middle class medicine graduate (a useful, needed Doctor for Britain's failing NHS) leave with debts in excess of £35000 just so that Garry with EE at A Level can graduate in Communication Studies from Paisley??

They shouldnt but thats idealistic. practically its unlikely that Mickey mouse courses will go because for a start it cuts down on employment statistics by getting people into uni, and secondly think of all the staff somewhere like the university of Teeside employs. Getting rid of mickey mouse courses would prob get rid of a good 30 or so unis which would lead to a mass of unemployment.
0
Tek
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#126
Report 16 years ago
#126
(Original post by viviki)
They shouldnt but thats idealistic. practically its unlikely that Mickey mouse courses will go because for a start it cuts down on employment statistics by getting people into uni, and secondly think of all the staff somewhere like the university of Teeside employs. Getting rid of mickey mouse courses would prob get rid of a good 30 or so unis which would lead to a mass of unemployment.
So just because it cuts down on "employment figures" (my God! Don't mess with the statistics!!) we shouldn't bother to do what's "idealistic"?? Huh??!
0
Bigcnee
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#127
Report 16 years ago
#127
(Original post by JSM)
every time i buy booze or cigarettes
I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about.
That or you're not making much sense.
0
JSM
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#128
Report 16 years ago
#128
(Original post by kildare)
EXCLUDING VAT
thats not just VAT, theres also duty on that, VAT is on most things and why shuld it exclude VAT as it artificially inflates prices by about 20%.
0
viviki
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#129
Report 16 years ago
#129
I'm not saying that people should be massively in debt, what I'm saying is that it will never be done because it would be unpopular so no government would do it.
We need to attack the whole problem, just getting rid of mickey mouse courses wouldnt solve the problem, what we need to do is have a wide variety of vocational places available where people can work at a reduced rate and train at the same time, thus stopping them getting into debt and cutting down on the amount of university places required.
Also if someone does want to do a course regarded as Mickey mouse why the heck shouldnt they? They might want to live at home and there is some call for media students just this is probably less than medicine. How do you identify what should be publically funded and what shouldnt? It would be incredibly difficult to classify that one subject makes you more employable than another. How could you turn these idealistic views into reality. WHen it comes down to it thats the problem.
0
JSM
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#130
Report 16 years ago
#130
(Original post by kildare)
So at what age should the government decide "well you're going to flip burgers for the rest of your life so we're going to stop educating you"?
i never said the government should, i should!
0
JSM
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#131
Report 16 years ago
#131
(Original post by kildare)
Again I'll say

what on earth are you talking about?
i was speaking directly to Tek, who i know

if you get rid of mickey mouse courses and improve or sustain education, everyone wants to go to uni, greater competition for the places available. If entrance becomes a strict meritocracy he wouldn't get in.
0
JSM
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#132
Report 16 years ago
#132
(Original post by Tek)
So just because it cuts down on "employment figures" (my God! Don't mess with the statistics!!) we shouldn't bother to do what's "idealistic"?? Huh??!
What has always made the state a hell on earth has been that precisely man has tried to make it his heaven F. Hoelderlin

Idealism is pointless becasue everyone has their own ideals.
0
viviki
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#133
Report 16 years ago
#133
(Original post by Tek)
So just because it cuts down on "employment figures" (my God! Don't mess with the statistics!!) we shouldn't bother to do what's "idealistic"?? Huh??!
Yes but thats life. People vote for their government and people do not want to believe the degree of unemployment in this country thats why the statistics get played around with. Political parties dont want to lose their support and people would rather believe the rosy vision rather than the harsh reality.

Also get rid of the mickey mouse courses and "unnecessary" university courses and you would have about 75% of the population who dont go to university at all. Why should they pay taxes from their hard earned lower wage brackets so that an elite minority should go to university qualify and earn a far higher salary than they will ever be capable of earning.
0
Tek
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#134
Report 16 years ago
#134
(Original post by viviki)
I'm not saying that people should be massively in debt, what I'm saying is that it will never be done because it would be unpopular so no government would do it.
We need to attack the whole problem, just getting rid of mickey mouse courses wouldnt solve the problem, what we need to do is have a wide variety of vocational places available where people can work at a reduced rate and train at the same time, thus stopping them getting into debt and cutting down on the amount of university places required.
Also if someone does want to do a course regarded as Mickey mouse why the heck shouldnt they? They might want to live at home and there is some call for media students just this is probably less than medicine. How do you identify what should be publically funded and what shouldnt? It would be incredibly difficult to classify that one subject makes you more employable than another. How could you turn these idealistic views into reality. WHen it comes down to it thats the problem.
Sorry, who's being idealistic here? Me or you? In an ideal world, I'd like to see Mickey Mouse courses. I was suggesting, for practical reasons, that we abolish them in order to fund "proper" courses.
0
Tek
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#135
Report 16 years ago
#135
(Original post by viviki)
Also get rid of the mickey mouse courses and "unnecessary" university courses and you would have about 75% of the population who dont go to university at all. Why should they pay taxes from their hard earned lower wage brackets so that an elite minority should go to university qualify and earn a far higher salary than they will ever be capable of earning.
In that case, why should I pay for millions of state school students to be educated, when I don't use the system myself? We've already established that in a developed country, the core education system should be expanded in order to include Universities.
0
kildare
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#136
Report 16 years ago
#136
(Original post by JSM)
thats not just VAT, theres also duty on that, VAT is on most things and why shuld it exclude VAT as it artificially inflates prices by about 20%.
The duty is "VAT" as such..... And seen as alcohol and cigarettes cause illness and as such put an extra strain on the NHS (and the police force) it's only natural that they would taxed in the form of VAT.
0
kildare
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#137
Report 16 years ago
#137
(Original post by JSM)
i . If entrance becomes a strict meritocracy he wouldn't get in.
Who suggested that it would?
0
kildare
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#138
Report 16 years ago
#138
(Original post by JSM)
i never said the government should, i should!
right...
0
viviki
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#139
Report 16 years ago
#139
Yes and as I already stated it wouldnt be practical because of the amount of unemployment it would cause. Widespread unemployment and intense competition for places so that an elite can go to uni free. I cant see anyone voting for that. Also there is only so much demand ie. employment opportunities after graduation for people on "proper" courses.
0
JSM
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#140
Report 16 years ago
#140
(Original post by viviki)
Yes but thats life. People vote for their government and people do not want to believe the degree of unemployment in this country thats why the statistics get played around with. Political parties dont want to lose their support and people would rather believe the rosy vision rather than the harsh reality.

Also get rid of the mickey mouse courses and "unnecessary" university courses and you would have about 75% of the population who dont go to university at all. Why should they pay taxes from their hard earned lower wage brackets so that an elite minority should go to university qualify and earn a far higher salary than they will ever be capable of earning.
um it is a rosy reality, if there was not economic prosperity (due to coservative economic policies) then people would not be so happy.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How are you feeling ahead of results day?

Very Confident (10)
7.81%
Confident (16)
12.5%
Indifferent (24)
18.75%
Unsure (36)
28.13%
Worried (42)
32.81%

Watched Threads

View All