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Equality of opportunity – unless you're one of the middle classes watch

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    (Original post by kildare)
    Have you ever paid a penny of tax (excluding VAT) in your life?
    every time i buy booze or cigarettes
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    (Original post by viviki)
    The problem with that is that the universities are now businesses within themselves getting rid of mickey mouse courses would lead to job losses.
    Why should a middle class medicine graduate (a useful, needed Doctor for Britain's failing NHS) leave with debts in excess of £35000 just so that Garry with EE at A Level can graduate in Communication Studies from Paisley??
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    (Original post by JSM)
    every time i buy booze or cigarettes
    EXCLUDING VAT
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    (Original post by kildare)
    EXCLUDING VAT
    Haha, was just going to say that.
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    (Original post by Tek)
    Why should a middle class medicine graduate (a useful, needed Doctor for Britain's failing NHS) leave with debts in excess of £35000 just so that Garry with EE at A Level can graduate in Communication Studies from Paisley??

    They shouldnt but thats idealistic. practically its unlikely that Mickey mouse courses will go because for a start it cuts down on employment statistics by getting people into uni, and secondly think of all the staff somewhere like the university of Teeside employs. Getting rid of mickey mouse courses would prob get rid of a good 30 or so unis which would lead to a mass of unemployment.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    They shouldnt but thats idealistic. practically its unlikely that Mickey mouse courses will go because for a start it cuts down on employment statistics by getting people into uni, and secondly think of all the staff somewhere like the university of Teeside employs. Getting rid of mickey mouse courses would prob get rid of a good 30 or so unis which would lead to a mass of unemployment.
    So just because it cuts down on "employment figures" (my God! Don't mess with the statistics!!) we shouldn't bother to do what's "idealistic"?? Huh??!
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    (Original post by JSM)
    every time i buy booze or cigarettes
    I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about.
    That or you're not making much sense.
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    (Original post by kildare)
    EXCLUDING VAT
    thats not just VAT, theres also duty on that, VAT is on most things and why shuld it exclude VAT as it artificially inflates prices by about 20%.
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    I'm not saying that people should be massively in debt, what I'm saying is that it will never be done because it would be unpopular so no government would do it.
    We need to attack the whole problem, just getting rid of mickey mouse courses wouldnt solve the problem, what we need to do is have a wide variety of vocational places available where people can work at a reduced rate and train at the same time, thus stopping them getting into debt and cutting down on the amount of university places required.
    Also if someone does want to do a course regarded as Mickey mouse why the heck shouldnt they? They might want to live at home and there is some call for media students just this is probably less than medicine. How do you identify what should be publically funded and what shouldnt? It would be incredibly difficult to classify that one subject makes you more employable than another. How could you turn these idealistic views into reality. WHen it comes down to it thats the problem.
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    (Original post by kildare)
    So at what age should the government decide "well you're going to flip burgers for the rest of your life so we're going to stop educating you"?
    i never said the government should, i should!
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    (Original post by kildare)
    Again I'll say

    what on earth are you talking about?
    i was speaking directly to Tek, who i know

    if you get rid of mickey mouse courses and improve or sustain education, everyone wants to go to uni, greater competition for the places available. If entrance becomes a strict meritocracy he wouldn't get in.
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    (Original post by Tek)
    So just because it cuts down on "employment figures" (my God! Don't mess with the statistics!!) we shouldn't bother to do what's "idealistic"?? Huh??!
    What has always made the state a hell on earth has been that precisely man has tried to make it his heaven F. Hoelderlin

    Idealism is pointless becasue everyone has their own ideals.
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    (Original post by Tek)
    So just because it cuts down on "employment figures" (my God! Don't mess with the statistics!!) we shouldn't bother to do what's "idealistic"?? Huh??!
    Yes but thats life. People vote for their government and people do not want to believe the degree of unemployment in this country thats why the statistics get played around with. Political parties dont want to lose their support and people would rather believe the rosy vision rather than the harsh reality.

    Also get rid of the mickey mouse courses and "unnecessary" university courses and you would have about 75% of the population who dont go to university at all. Why should they pay taxes from their hard earned lower wage brackets so that an elite minority should go to university qualify and earn a far higher salary than they will ever be capable of earning.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    I'm not saying that people should be massively in debt, what I'm saying is that it will never be done because it would be unpopular so no government would do it.
    We need to attack the whole problem, just getting rid of mickey mouse courses wouldnt solve the problem, what we need to do is have a wide variety of vocational places available where people can work at a reduced rate and train at the same time, thus stopping them getting into debt and cutting down on the amount of university places required.
    Also if someone does want to do a course regarded as Mickey mouse why the heck shouldnt they? They might want to live at home and there is some call for media students just this is probably less than medicine. How do you identify what should be publically funded and what shouldnt? It would be incredibly difficult to classify that one subject makes you more employable than another. How could you turn these idealistic views into reality. WHen it comes down to it thats the problem.
    Sorry, who's being idealistic here? Me or you? In an ideal world, I'd like to see Mickey Mouse courses. I was suggesting, for practical reasons, that we abolish them in order to fund "proper" courses.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    Also get rid of the mickey mouse courses and "unnecessary" university courses and you would have about 75% of the population who dont go to university at all. Why should they pay taxes from their hard earned lower wage brackets so that an elite minority should go to university qualify and earn a far higher salary than they will ever be capable of earning.
    In that case, why should I pay for millions of state school students to be educated, when I don't use the system myself? We've already established that in a developed country, the core education system should be expanded in order to include Universities.
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    (Original post by JSM)
    thats not just VAT, theres also duty on that, VAT is on most things and why shuld it exclude VAT as it artificially inflates prices by about 20%.
    The duty is "VAT" as such..... And seen as alcohol and cigarettes cause illness and as such put an extra strain on the NHS (and the police force) it's only natural that they would taxed in the form of VAT.
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    (Original post by JSM)
    i . If entrance becomes a strict meritocracy he wouldn't get in.
    Who suggested that it would?
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    (Original post by JSM)
    i never said the government should, i should!
    right...
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    Yes and as I already stated it wouldnt be practical because of the amount of unemployment it would cause. Widespread unemployment and intense competition for places so that an elite can go to uni free. I cant see anyone voting for that. Also there is only so much demand ie. employment opportunities after graduation for people on "proper" courses.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    Yes but thats life. People vote for their government and people do not want to believe the degree of unemployment in this country thats why the statistics get played around with. Political parties dont want to lose their support and people would rather believe the rosy vision rather than the harsh reality.

    Also get rid of the mickey mouse courses and "unnecessary" university courses and you would have about 75% of the population who dont go to university at all. Why should they pay taxes from their hard earned lower wage brackets so that an elite minority should go to university qualify and earn a far higher salary than they will ever be capable of earning.
    um it is a rosy reality, if there was not economic prosperity (due to coservative economic policies) then people would not be so happy.
 
 
 
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