£22000 worth of debt? Watch

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Chicken
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#21
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#21
(Original post by starry)
Sorry my bad. Looking at the cambridge website:
Fees for intl students for a year for 2000-2001:
10k university fees
7k living expenses
3k college fees
=20k
Poor things!
How on earth can you pay £7000 a year on living expenses??? Thats just not possible!!! My budget is £70 a week (i usually spend about £50-60 of that, but then save the rest and use it on a night out or something) but I am at uni for 30 weeks of the year - 70x30 = £2100 a year. Ok fair enough you may have a few plane tickets home but that may only take it up another £1000 - i just can't see where £7000 came from...
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Tek
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#22
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#22
A) Why does the Government want to put 50% of people through University, which middle and upper class people have to subsidise, when 50% of students don't even get 5 GCSEs grades A*-C? It's madness.

B) If Universities need more money, shouldn't that haven taken priority over wasting millions in Iraq, for a war that wasn't even justified?
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starry
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Chicken)
How on earth can you pay £7000 a year on living expenses??? Thats just not possible!!! My budget is £70 a week (i usually spend about £50-60 of that, but then save the rest and use it on a night out or something) but I am at uni for 30 weeks of the year - 70x30 = £2100 a year. Ok fair enough you may have a few plane tickets home but that may only take it up another £1000 - i just can't see where £7000 came from...
Me neither. But my friend pays 900 pounds for every flight back home - depends on where the people come from! But they say accomodation is about 3200 pounds a year, so the other 4000 includes flights, food etc.
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AT82
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Tek)
A) Why does the Government want to put 50% of people through University, which middle and upper class people have to subsidise, when 50% of students don't even get 5 GCSEs grades A*-C? It's madness.

B) If Universities need more money, shouldn't that haven taken priority over wasting millions in Iraq, for a war that wasn't even justified?
Lol I must have said this abouit 100 times in the last few days!

The government don't wamt to put 50% of people into uni. They want 50% of under 30 year old to have some kind of higher education qualifcation. These include:

HND
HNC
NVQ Level 4 and 5
Degrees
Other higer diplomas.

The amount of places on university degree courses will not be increased.
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Tek
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#25
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#25
(Original post by amazingtrade)
Lol I must have said this abouit 100 times in the last few days!

The government don't wamt to put 50% of people into uni. They want 50% of under 30 year old to have some kind of higher education qualifcation. These include:

HND
HNC
NVQ Level 4 and 5
Degrees
Other higer diplomas.

The amount of places on university degree courses will not be increased.
The middle class still has to subsidise this madness.
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Chicken
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#26
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#26
(Original post by starry)
Me neither. But my friend pays 900 pounds for every flight back home - depends on where the people come from! But they say accomodation is about 3200 pounds a year, so the other 4000 includes flights, food etc.
Sorry my mistake i thought the £3000 college fees were the accomodation costs. I pay £2700 for my accomodation (which is expensive compared to some of my friends) so that still only makes it up to £4800...
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fishpaste
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Tek)
The middle class still has to subsidise this madness.
People should always have the opportunity to learn though, don't you think? Regardless of how lacking they are in GCSEs.
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joyabbott
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#28
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Yes, international students do have high fees... but they've chosen to come to the UK to study so personally I don't have a problem with that.

As for 22000, I'm going to be way more in debt than that, and that's "only" paying £1000+ tuition fees a year.

I reckon my degree (admittedly 5 years) will cost me around 30,000 to 35,000. 7000 a year is 'reasonable' - Tuition fees 1200 or whatever they were this year, rent 3,200, food 1500, books 500 + travel, going out, clothes etc. I'm 'careful' with money, but it really does mount up.

I don't disagree with tuition fees however, think £3000 a year is rather steep - I certainly may have reconsidered my career choice. Having said that, in terms of a lifetime's income, even at £3000, it's not that much... The fees may make people think more carefully about what they choose to study. I don't see why tax payers should pay for people to study 'mickey mouse' courses. My parents didn't have the opportunity to go to university, so why should they pay for all the people who just want to prolong 'entering the real world'.
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AT82
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Tek)
The middle class still has to subsidise this madness.
Yeah but an educated society has to be supported. I am at uni and the LEA pay for my fees but I think I have more right to be there than some of the middle class students there. Class should not have anything to do with it.
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Tek
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#30
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(Original post by fishpaste)
People should always have the opportunity to learn though, don't you think? Regardless of how lacking they are in GCSEs.
A)If people have the right to learn, and as society becomes more developed that is arguably the case, then the Government shouldn't be charging anyone at all!

B)Some of you are missing the point that a degree in Knitting doesn't really benefit society, but a degree in Medicine does. We shouldn't charge prospective Doctors £35000 to train when we NEED more of them.
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AT82
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Tek)
A)If people have the right to learn, and as society becomes more developed that is arguably the case, then the Government shouldn't be charging anyone at all!

B)Some of you are missing the point that a degree in Knitting doesn't really benefit society, but a degree in Medicine does. We shouldn't charge prospective Doctors £35000 to train when we NEED more of them.
I totally understand your point but I feel you are exaggerating things. You can't study knitting at any higher education level.

I do feel perhaps medicine should be subersised though but then once doctors get jobs they will be earning a lot of money eventually.
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lilsunflower
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Chicken)
Sorry my mistake i thought the £3000 college fees were the accomodation costs. I pay £2700 for my accomodation (which is expensive compared to some of my friends) so that still only makes it up to £4800...
Haha okay let me clear this all up you guys. I'm an international student and this is how my fees work out.

This is to study law:
9,000 for tuition
3,600 for MY ensuite single room in a catered hall
1,000 x 2 for flights back home every year
3,500 estimated for food, phonebills, medical costs travel etc.
which comes up to 18,100

(times that by 3 and you will find out how much I pay for the entire course. times it by 3 again and that's how much it costs in my currency)

For medicine however which my cousin is doing, he pays 12,000 a year for tuition, and in for one of his years it is 20,000 (clinical or something weird). I checked them up in the website and medicine is one of the more expensive ones.

It is extremely expensive and only the richest people in this part of the world can afford to go. Pretty depressing stuff!
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fishpaste
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Tek)
A)If people have the right to learn, and as society becomes more developed that is arguably the case, then the Government shouldn't be charging anyone at all!

B)Some of you are missing the point that a degree in Knitting doesn't really benefit society, but a degree in Medicine does. We shouldn't charge prospective Doctors £35000 to train when we NEED more of them.
Learning has an opportunity cost etc, etc, and so should cost money. Except if you're a cashier at Kwik Save, you probably can't afford to learn. If you're the managing director of Tesco, you probably can.

I do agree that the money could be used to educate more doctors though, just don't think you can justify depriving the least able of education, in such a developed society.
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Tek
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#34
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#34
(Original post by amazingtrade)
I totally understand your point but I feel you are exaggerating things. You can't study knitting at any higher education level.

I do feel perhaps medicine should be subersised though but then once doctors get jobs they will be earning a lot of money eventually.
From a UCAS search:

Knitwear (11 courses )

Here are two examples:

The Nottingham Trent University

Fashion Knitwear Design and Knitted Textiles 4SW Hon BA
Fashion Knitwear Design and Knitted Textiles 4SW Hon BA
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Tek
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#35
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#35
(Original post by fishpaste)
Learning has an opportunity cost etc, etc, and so should cost money. Except if you're a cashier at Kwik Save, you probably can't afford to learn. If you're the managing director of Tesco, you probably can.

I do agree that the money could be used to educate more doctors though, just don't think you can justify depriving the least able of education, in such a developed society.
But why should we have to pay anthing at all, if we graduates will benefit society? Society is a single entity, there is only one beneficiary of degrees, and that is society! The Government just can't grasp this point...
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fishpaste
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Tek)
But why should we have to pay anthing at all, if we graduates will benefit society? Society is a single entity, there is only one beneficiary of degrees, and that is society! The Government just can't grasp this point...
Because in the free market, education is underconsumed, so it should be subsidised by the government until it is at the so called correct level of consumption. This isn't 100%. According to labour it's 50%?
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Chicken
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#37
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#37
(Original post by lilsunflower)
Haha okay let me clear this all up you guys. I'm an international student and this is how my fees work out.

This is to study law:
9,000 for tuition
3,600 for MY ensuite single room in a catered hall
1,000 x 2 for flights back home every year
3,500 estimated for food, phonebills, medical costs travel etc.
which comes up to 18,100

(times that by 3 and you will find out how much I pay for the entire course. times it by 3 again and that's how much it costs in my currency)

For medicine however which my cousin is doing, he pays 12,000 a year for tuition, and in for one of his years it is 20,000 (clinical or something weird). I checked them up in the website and medicine is one of the more expensive ones.

It is extremely expensive and only the richest people in this part of the world can afford to go. Pretty depressing stuff!
Which country do you come from? Its making me a bit worried now as I want to study for a year abroad, but if its gonna cost me anything like that I really can't afford it.
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joyabbott
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#38
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Yeah, I agree... med students should be subsidised

(though actually, now you mention it, nurses, physios, midwifes all get bursary's etc and no tuition fees, so why not med?)

I think we should contribute something towards our tuition - Like I said before, it should, hopefully act as a deterrent, and encourage only those who have a proper 'purpose' for going to uni. I wouldn't have a problem with people taking 'mickey mouse' subjects if they were going to fund themselves, but I don't see why everyone else should have to pay for them to have 3 years of 'fun'.
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lilsunflower
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Chicken)
Which country do you come from? Its making me a bit worried now as I want to study for a year abroad, but if its gonna cost me anything like that I really can't afford it.
I'm from Brunei. Don't worry though.. it won't cost you so much especially because the pound is EXTREMELY strong. If you plan to go to the states in an Ivy League Uni, be prepared to pay 45,000 USD. I'm too lazy to convert that into pounds, but you can do it yourself.

Ummm... where exactly do you intend to study? For me, US was the most expensive followed by the UK, but that is because they have reputable education systems and are internationall acclaimed. If I had studied at a good Malaysian university, the entire thing would cost me about 2000-2500 pounds a year! It depends on exchange rates and where you want to go so don't worry too much.

The fees I quoted above are for an international student living in the UK. Basically the bulk of what we pay comes from the tuition fees and other stuff that you don't need to pay for such as phonebills home and airfare. And we also tend to be a bit more spoilt and demand the most expensive accomodation since we're already spending so much.
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smaug
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#40
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#40
(Original post by joyabbott)
Yeah, I agree... med students should be subsidised

(though actually, now you mention it, nurses, physios, midwifes all get bursary's etc and no tuition fees, so why not med?).
Theres a BIG difference though! The shortage of doctors is caused by a shortage of training places -there is no lack of people applying, whereas the shortages in the other areas you mention (though not physio i think :confused: )is caused by a lack of applicants - thus bursaries to tempt them in?

(Original post by joyabbott)
I wouldn't have a problem with people taking 'mickey mouse' subjects if they were going to fund themselves, but I don't see why everyone else should have to pay for them to have 3 years of 'fun'.
I take your point, but it is quite difficult to decide what is 'mickey mouse' and what isnt. Are you only going to subsidise ppl doing vocational degrees? What about subjects like english and maths, not strictly vocational but not generally seen as 'mickey mouse'? Take it a little further and take subjects like anthropology or classics, are these 'mickey mouse'? Some of the easier degrees at some of the new universities are actually providing ppl for expanding industries like tourism and leisure, would these be 'M.M'?
Even if this problem of definition were solved it would be unfair if only rich ppl could study subjects like classics, anthropology or philosophy while poorer ppl had to become nurses, engineers and lawyers. Im afraid that is going to happen anyway with the new top up fees, really poor people just won't go to uni or will do 'MM' courses not realising that they wont get a job, and lower middle class people who have to pay full fees but whose parents cant help will feel pushed into doing courses where they can be sure of a job. :mad:
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