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MattG
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#1
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apparently the average londoner is seen by by CCTV over 350 times a day. (i believe this is central london) it has been known that such images have been given to various companies with no permission from the indvidual on camera.

how do people feel with the ever increasing presence of CCTV? is it taking away our liberties? Big brother? or is it a compromise worth having?
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white_solitude
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(Original post by MattG)
apparently the average londoner is seen by by CCTV over 350 times a day. (i believe this is central london) it has been known that such images have been given to various companies with no permission from the indvidual on camera.

how do people feel with the ever increasing presence of CCTV? is it taking away our liberties? Big brother? or is it a compromise worth having?

it kinda does sound pretty dominating, the whole 1984 effect, but having never been put in that situation i guess i'm not in a position to say. although i think if i ever was watched that closely then there would be a certain element of control and invasion of privacy. 350 times a day seems a little too much for my liking...
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MattG
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(Original post by white_solitude)
it kinda does sound pretty dominating, the whole 1984 effect, but having never been put in that situation i guess i'm not in a position to say. although i think if i ever was watched that closely then there would be a certain element of control and invasion of privacy. 350 times a day seems a little too much for my liking...
yes it seems silly, 350 times a day?! if anything more and more cities and towns will be following londons lead
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AT82
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I personaly don't care. I have nothing to hide, it reduces crime, crime in Manchester city centre has fallen by 50% since have got europe's most advanced CCTV system.
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white_solitude
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(Original post by amazingtrade)
I personaly don't care. I have nothing to hide, it reduces crime, crime in Manchester city centre has fallen by 50% since have got europe's most advanced CCTV system.

but wouldn't u feel uncomfortable?
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AT82
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(Original post by white_solitude)
but wouldn't u feel uncomfortable?
I do a little but I personaly feel more comfertable knowing if I got attacked it will be recorded. Its only because of CCTV I feel safe walking in Manchester city centre on my own at 2:00am in the morning.
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white_solitude
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(Original post by amazingtrade)
I do a little but I personaly feel more comfertable knowing if I got attacked it will be recorded. Its only because of CCTV I feel safe walking in Manchester city centre on my own at 2:00am in the morning.

thats true, but being watched tends to give even the innocent a paranoid mind

anyway too tired to bother arguing for now

c ya guys later, need some sleep!
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MattG
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(Original post by amazingtrade)
I personaly don't care. I have nothing to hide, it reduces crime, crime in Manchester city centre has fallen by 50% since have got europe's most advanced CCTV system.
i agree, nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide.

did anyone watch wall of silence on itv tonight? a teenage lad was beaten to death by a group of youths with cricket bats and snooker cues. one kid cracked his skull by jumping on his head and they split his liver in two from the force of the blows. it took the police almost 2 years to convict just 3 of 5 brought to trial (there was apparently many more youths) due to the fear ppl had of the gangs.

if there was one cctv camera that caught it a lot of pain and misery could have been averted
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AT82
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(Original post by white_solitude)
thats true, but being watched tends to give even the innocent a paranoid mind

anyway too tired to bother arguing for now

c ya guys later, need some sleep!
Lol there is nothing to argue about I know exactly what you mean. I know what yo umean about the paronoid thing, I feel very paroind in shops that have security guards.
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Jonatan
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#10
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(Original post by MattG)
apparently the average londoner is seen by by CCTV over 350 times a day. (i believe this is central london) it has been known that such images have been given to various companies with no permission from the indvidual on camera.

how do people feel with the ever increasing presence of CCTV? is it taking away our liberties? Big brother? or is it a compromise worth having?
If every londoner is seen 350 times a day that makes quite a few snapshots to analyse total. I mean whats London's population? I mean , sure , you could check who robs a mini bank when you know where it hapens, but trying to track someones movements using thsi system is going to be difficult. Whos going to analyse the billions of people appearing and dissapearing on these screen every day ? Hardly an easy job...
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jediknight007
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350 times a day? Am I really that popular? Lol

Anyways, I don't really care since I don't notice them much. I think it actually gives me a sense of security since the streets are never safe. 2 hooded youths tried to mug me once a few years ago. They beat my face up a bit but didn't manage to get anything. One of these bus routes I used to take had so much graffitti on it before they started putting CCTV cameras in there with a couple of large signs warning people. Those buses have since now been very clean indeed. Anyways, as long as it helps to reduce street crime, I'm happy. I have always wished that there was a CCTV camera on every street corner.
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Kurdt Morello
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(Original post by jediknight007)
350 times a day? Am I really that popular? Lol

Anyways, I don't really care since I don't notice them much. I think it actually gives me a sense of security since the streets are never safe. 2 hooded youths tried to mug me once a few years ago. They beat my face up a bit but didn't manage to get anything. One of these bus routes I used to take had so much graffitti on it before they started putting CCTV cameras in there with a couple of large signs warning people. Those buses have since now been very clean indeed. Anyways, as long as it helps to reduce street crime, I'm happy. I have always wished that there was a CCTV camera on every street corner.
U know Orwell's 1984 could be upon us in 30yrs or so. We have already flirted with checking out the 'crime' gene to see who is born to be a criminal
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Jonatan
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(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
U know Orwell's 1984 could be upon us in 30yrs or so. We have already flirted with checking out the 'crime' gene to see who is born to be a criminal
Well, the problem with Orwells 1984 is that it assumes that you have someone watching all of those telescreens all day long. Can you imagine the work requiered to do such a thing in central london? I mean, as you said the CCTV cameras today see a person about 350 times, if you expand the system to be in every house this is going to multiply up quite quickly. Imagine the workforce needed to analyse all those movie clips. You would need almost 30% of londons population in order to watch the remaining 70%. Such a society would collapse within months if not weeks.
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Kurdt Morello
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(Original post by Jonatan)
Well, the problem with Orwells 1984 is that it assumes that you have someone watching all of those telescreens all day long. Can you imagine the work requiered to do such a thing in central london? I mean, as you said the CCTV cameras today see a person about 350 times, if you expand the system to be in every house this is going to multiply up quite quickly. Imagine the workforce needed to analyse all those movie clips. You would need almost 30% of londons population in order to watch the remaining 70%. Such a society would collapse within months if not weeks.
but when he's not doing his excercise in front of the telescreen the woman picks him out immediately - maybe they will regulate society to a timetable like that eventually and use computers to make threats
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Jonatan
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(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
but when he's not doing his excercise in front of the telescreen the woman picks him out immediately - maybe they will regulate society to a timetable like that eventually and use computers to make threats
Well, once again it would not work in practice. 1984 may have some interesting point about communism and totalitarianism, but it is impossible to monitor every single person at all time. The only way this can be done would be to cause people to spy on each other, but this assumes that the government can trust a fairly large percentage of the population, which is quite rarely the case in a totalitarian dictatorship. As when it comes to computers, when they have the processing power to do what you described, Id be more worried that the computers decide to do some mevil stuff than their masters...
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Kurdt Morello
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(Original post by Jonatan)
Well, once again it would not work in practice. 1984 may have some interesting point about communism and totalitarianism, but it is impossible to monitor every single person at all time. The only way this can be done would be to cause people to spy on each other, but this assumes that the government can trust a fairly large percentage of the population, which is quite rarely the case in a totalitarian dictatorship. As when it comes to computers, when they have the processing power to do what you described, Id be more worried that the computers decide to do some mevil stuff than their masters...
i take ur point - i am a libertarian myself - however i have read theories suggesting that the population of this country could drastically decrease in the future - that would make it easier wouldn't it lol
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Jonatan
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(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
i take ur point - i am a libertarian myself - however i have read theories suggesting that the population of this country could drastically decrease in the future - that would make it easier wouldn't it lol
Not really. With a lower population you also have less people to watch the population. Also, I should mention that I think you should have very strict regulations regarding how and what the CCTV systems should be used for. And andy violations should be punished apropriately.

Also, the sad thing is that the less you can trust the population , the less you can trust the population. If crime increase, measures against crime must also incrase, otherwise you have an unbearable situation...
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Dude
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well i don't live in London, so i don't get put on CCTV that much.
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George-W-Duck
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#19
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I read somewhere online that big nightclubs in leeds and london now have concealed security cameras in the toilets due to the number of incidents, i'm all for cameras in streets and things but not in toilets for god sake
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Jonatan
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#20
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(Original post by George-W-Duck)
I read somewhere online that big nightclubs in leeds and london now have concealed security cameras in the toilets due to the number of incidents, i'm all for cameras in streets and things but not in toilets for god sake
I wounder if a better solution would not be to hire someone to guard the toilets...
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