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Medicine: Oxford vs Cambridge + more

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Reply 20
hyuuga
For some reason, the only college I can think of applying to is clare. A few people said it once and they were nice on the phone. Is that enough? Anything good/bad i need to consider about clare? I will look at the clare thread section too.

Hey sbailey, you think you know what might have made you so attractive to medschools apart from interview? Like any outstanding stuff you did, you just seem like it was inevitable that you would go to cambridge in terms of confidence. I'm not going to pretend I did it...just seeing if I have anything like it.


I never thought it was inevitable; with that much competition it'd be foolish to think that. You should have seen how excited I was when I got my first offer through (from Manchester). It was such a relief to know I would be going somewhere. In terms of my application, I would say I was strong on the grades and achievements front but I was worried about the interview, because I'm not a charismatic person. That's why I chose Southampton as my safety net, because they don't interview. In terms of achievements it was the normal sort of stuff that people put in their PS - medals in olympiads and whatnot, and being an MD of a Young Enterprise company (which flopped, but I didn't have to tell anyone that :biggrin:).

EDIT: Btw, Clare is as good a choice as any for medicine. Very nice college too.

At oxford some of the meds got asked why our hands aren't transparent to light or something? Are the questions similarly sciency at cambridge? Is there much point them asking you after the BMAT.

Ok I'm going to read some of the literature again now.

ps.thanks for the admissions stats link


Cambridge will still want to ask you lots of science questions. You should expect the same grilling interview as you would get at Oxford.
Reply 21
sbailey

EDIT: Btw, Clare is as good a choice as any for medicine. Very nice college too.


It's alright, I've put the gun away now :wink:

Erm yes - I should point out that I didn't for one minute assume I'd get into Cambridge and like Steve, I was insanely excited when I got my first offer (Nottingham) as at least it meant I could be a doctor somewhere (unlike most people on here, I was not overly obsessed with Cambridge entrance).

I quite liked my interviews; I'm not a naturally outgoing person but I've never had a problem with that sort of situation. I know I made several fairly huge mistakes in my Cambridge interview, but they seemed to like the way I was thinking anyway, and even having the confidence to say "I don't know" is better than being silent.
Reply 22
Ok. I've redecided on pembroke, again - anything against it that i should rigorously consider? I mean it doesn't seem to get much talk on here but that could just be because helenia goes to clare... but it sounds great. Location is obviously ideal. Good facilities, comfy looking, relevant societies. Computer facilities/library stuff. Do many colleges have more societies, e.g. philosophy society or 'chinese' society? Or is that more of a university thing?

I have just seen that last year 64 people applied for 10 places offered. Ummm....should I let this affect my decision because it is ridiculously higher than almost all others?

I had a gold certificate in the last senior maths challenge I did, I don't know whether to put it because it means I didn't get through to further stages.Its hardly relevant either really,is it?

I MDd a YE company, which also flopped. hehe :wink: - Oh...I'm so sorry s i thought you were a girl...sorry for thinking it. Only worked it out by helenia saying 'steve' - i wondered whether i was supposed to know this person..oops
Reply 23
hyuuga
Ok. I've redecided on pembroke, again - anything against it that i should rigorously consider? I mean it doesn't seem to get much talk on here but that could just be because helenia goes to clare... but it sounds great. Location is obviously ideal. Good facilities, comfy looking, relevant societies. Computer facilities/library stuff. Do many colleges have more societies, e.g. philosophy society or 'chinese' society? Or is that more of a university thing?


Pembroke is a really nice college, if you like it, go for it. I'm not sure what the average no. of apps/place is for all the colleges, but if you're good enough for Cambridge then you'll be pooled, so I wouldn't worry about that


Oh...I'm so sorry s i thought you were a girl...sorry for thinking it. Only worked it out by helenia saying 'steve' - i wondered whether i was supposed to know this person..oops


See that little blue icon by his location in the top right hand corner of his posts? Might be a small hint :wink:
The cambridge undergradmedical course is both easier to get into than oxford, and far superior. however, the oxford clinical training is superior to most places (if a bit acedmia driven), and if you go to oxford you get an automatic place at oxford clinical school.

upon reflection i would say cambridge is the one to go for, but am sure someone will try to 'prove' me wrong
Reply 25
Jamie
The cambridge undergradmedical course is both easier to get into than oxford, and far superior. however, the oxford clinical training is superior to most places (if a bit acedmia driven), and if you go to oxford you get an automatic place at oxford clinical school.

upon reflection i would say cambridge is the one to go for, but am sure someone will try to 'prove' me wrong

What makes you say that Cambridge is easier to get into but far superior? Just curious. I know that Oxford clinical has quite a rep, but going to Oxford in the first place does not guarantee you a place on their clinical course. It's possible that it might give you an advantage compared to Cambridge applicants. (Even though officially it's not supposed to!)
Have they changed that rule now then? because they always used to have the rule that oxford undergrads were garaunteed a place at john radcliffe. In any case they certainly look at their own people VERY favourably. The percentages don't lie. Over half cambridge medics are forced to go elsewhere, over 80% of Oxford medics remain in oxford.

And the undergrad course is easier to get into, there are more places but the number of applicants was always proportionally lower.
The course is surperior - oxford one is much drier, and always ranked low by the med school league tables. its a great course for those seeking a life in academia, but isn't quite as good as cambridge for setting students up for future clinicals.
Thats my opinion, and the one of the ex-oxford medics i do clinicals with anywho.
Reply 27
Do many colleges have more societies, e.g. philosophy society or 'chinese' society? Or is that more of a university thing?

I had a gold certificate in the last senior maths challenge I did, I don't know whether to put it because it means I didn't get through to further stages.Its hardly relevant either really,is it?

Anyone care to re-check these questions.
Oxford - well I'm just about to start my second year there, but as Elles has already made most of the comments I would have made there's not much to add really.

A few points probably already covered are:
prosection at Ox. I didn't get on very well with the anatomy teaching by the university and relied on the college more than anything else. Dissection I think would be better
Most people tend to find the histology bad here, but that might well be the case anywhere
Ox had a new medicial school building - better than camb. From what I've heard.
Reply 29
Hyuuga
Do many colleges have more societies, e.g. philosophy society or 'chinese' society? Or is that more of a university thing?

I had a gold certificate in the last senior maths challenge I did, I don't know whether to put it because it means I didn't get through to further stages.Its hardly relevant either really,is it?


A college Chinese society sounds unlikely, but perhaps a Philosophy one, although it'll essentially be the other people studying that subject in your college. Most of these societies are going to be university ones, whilst the College has mainly sports, music, drama and fund raising/human rights/fair trade societies.

Yeah, you should definitely put down the gold medal! It doesn't matter that you didn't get through to the European Kangaroo stage or whatever they call it. They don't really care if you're some mathematic genius but at least it'll show that you are naturally good at maths and shouldn't struggle with that aspect of the course. Personally, I reckon you should put anything and everything down. :p:

Intercity125
Most people tend to find the histology bad here, but that might well be the case anywhere
Ox had a new medicial school building - better than camb. From what I've heard.

Well, no one likes histology in Cambridge - because one of the universal constants in life is that it is boring everywhere - but I think most people would say it's well organised and well taught. Perhaps you're being unfair to the Oxford course because you don't enjoy it, though, so I won't jump to any conclusions.

As for the medical school building, I've had a personal tour and although I think it's very cool that you have your own preclinical school building, I don't think it offers anything other than "wow" value over our own facilities in Cambridge. Our facilities are used by the biological scientists as well, and if they're good enough for them they're good enough for us. :smile: They're certainly on a larger scale than what is provided in the medical school building.

Jamie
Have they changed that rule now then? because they always used to have the rule that oxford undergrads were garaunteed a place at john radcliffe.

I guess they have changed it, assuming that rule existed in the first place. :confused:

Jamie
In any case they certainly look at their own people VERY favourably. The percentages don't lie. Over half cambridge medics are forced to go elsewhere, over 80% of Oxford medics remain in oxford.

I always thought this was because Oxford students were much more keen to stay on. Most people at Cambridge want to go to London, it seems. I could easily believe there is favouritism though, since it must be very hard to compare students who have taken different exams. Also, most people getting into Oxford from Cambridge have a First class degree, which I believe is higher than the average Oxford acceptee, so this does sort of imply what you said.

Jamie
And the undergrad course is easier to get into, there are more places but the number of applicants was always proportionally lower.

I don't think going by applicants per place ratio is necessarily all that helpful. There are plenty of med schools with higher ratios which are not considered as competitive as either. By the way, the average tariff points of successful Cambridge applicants is higher, so surely this argues against Cambridge being easier to get into?
Jamie
The course is surperior - oxford one is much drier, and always ranked low by the med school league tables. its a great course for those seeking a life in academia, but isn't quite as good as cambridge for setting students up for future clinicals.

Actually, ever since I have been at Cambridge, Oxford has been ranked higher in the league tables. But so is Hull/York, so I'm not too bothered. :p: I have a friend from back home who does medicine at Oxford and he doesn't think it is "dry", and if anything it sounds like theirs is ever so slightly more clinically oriented, apart from the fact they learn less anatomy.

Jamie
Thats my opinion, and the one of the ex-oxford medics i do clinicals with anywho.

That's fair enough. You may well be right about everything, but it does differ from some of my opinions.
T'is very true. Histology sucks no matter how you dress it up. I mean tyhe money they must have spent at cambridge to install that computer system in the histology lab...and for what? it still sucks - its histology!

I can tell you 100% oxford clinicals prefers oxford people. Plus the radcliffe can accomodate a far greater proportion. You are misled over cambridge clinicals (not sure what age you are - you may be in for a nasty suprise) - its not that people necessarily WANT to go to london, its that there are 250+ med students a year in cambridge and space for about 125 in Addenbrookes/the cambridge clinical course.
By contrast the radcliffe is of similarish size, but oxford undergrad school is far smaller.
ergo oxford can afford to promise place to oxford students - it certainly was still doing that 3 years ago, and think it still gives heavy preference.

Unlike oxford or cambridge the london schools have excess clinical capacity.
and thank god!
Reply 31
hmm, perhaps showing your age these days, jamie..? :wink: your opinions & those of the oxford medics you're doing clinicals with don't seem to correlate that strongly with mine, current oxford medics i'm doing preclinicals with, or the cohort of friends who just went into our clinical school.. :p:
Reply 32
Jamie
T'is very true. Histology sucks no matter how you dress it up. I mean tyhe money they must have spent at cambridge to install that computer system in the histology lab...and for what? it still sucks - its histology!

Glad we can agree on something. :biggrin:

Jamie
I can tell you 100% oxford clinicals prefers oxford people. Plus the radcliffe can accomodate a far greater proportion. You are misled over cambridge clinicals (not sure what age you are - you may be in for a nasty suprise) - its not that people necessarily WANT to go to london, its that there are 250+ med students a year in cambridge and space for about 125 in Addenbrookes/the cambridge clinical course.

I'm a third year medic and I have looked into this quite a bit, particularly recently. I know for a fact that most of the medics in my year at my college would rather go to London than stay in Cambridge, but I accept 16 people is not enough to draw any firm conclusions. In the year above me, only one person stayed on and the rest all buggered off to GKT or Oxford. There are one or two in my year that would like to go to Oxford but I think they're put off by the competition. As for myself, I hope I am not in for any nasty surprises, but we'll see!

Jamie
By contrast the radcliffe is of similarish size, but oxford undergrad school is far smaller.
ergo oxford can afford to promise place to oxford students - it certainly was still doing that 3 years ago, and think it still gives heavy preference.

Unlike oxford or cambridge the london schools have excess clinical capacity.
and thank god!


Yup, I know all this, although I think the Oxford admissions process at least tries to be fair to outsiders. Read their prospectus and they make a point of saying that getting onto their preclinical course is no guarantee that you can go to the Radcliffe. The way I see it, the fact that many Oxford preclinical students are accepted mainly reflects the popularity of the school among their own students and the ability of those students. If it were really that biased then everyone at Oxford would stay on.
sbailey
Glad we can agree on something. :biggrin:


I'm a third year medic and I have looked into this quite a bit, particularly recently. I know for a fact that most of the medics in my year at my college would rather go to London than stay in Cambridge, but I accept 16 people is not enough to draw any firm conclusions. In the year above me, only one person stayed on and the rest all buggered off to GKT or Oxford. There are one or two in my year that would like to go to Oxford but I think they're put off by the competition. As for myself, I hope I am not in for any nasty surprises, but we'll see!



Yup, I know all this, although I think the Oxford admissions process at least tries to be fair to outsiders. Read their prospectus and they make a point of saying that getting onto their preclinical course is no guarantee that you can go to the Radcliffe. The way I see it, the fact that many Oxford preclinical students are accepted mainly reflects the popularity of the school among their own students and the ability of those students. If it were really that biased then everyone at Oxford would stay on.


no couse some people are sick of the university by the end of their 3 years - thats the main reason a few leave oxford.
think of the numbers that get into oxford that are from oxford. do you really think their students are that superior to ours to warrant those numbers of rejections we recieve?

Which college you at..?
Reply 34
Jamie
no couse some people are sick of the university by the end of their 3 years - thats the main reason a few leave oxford.
think of the numbers that get into oxford that are from oxford. do you really think their students are that superior to ours to warrant those numbers of rejections we recieve?

Which college you at..?


I'm at St John's. Don't hate me for it, though. :biggrin: Which college were you at?

I don't think their students are superior to ours, no. I'm not going to deny that there may be favouritism, but I do know that Oxford applicants have an 85% success rate, and that those who apply will be the students who reckon they have a chance of getting in (so 85% of good students get in). Perhaps after this round of admissions I will have a more informed opinion on this matter, but I don't think the system is that unfair. It's certainly competitive, though, and I wish it wasn't!

What would you say is required of a Cambridge applicant to have a good chance of getting in? My Oxford friend spoke to one of his tutors on my behalf (I didn't ask him to!) and was told that a 1st in the first or the second year is enough to be fairly sure of getting a place, providing you haven't failed any exams or got less than a 2:1 along the way. Do you think this was an exaggeration? He's actually worried about his own application to the Oxford clinical school, because he doesn't have any Merits - they obviously worry about applications to clinical school over there too!

EDIT: P.S. If you want to dispense any advice on which clinical schools to consider applying to, I'm all ears! :smile: Was GKT your first choice or were you keen on somewhere else?
Reply 35
sbailey
He's actually worried about his own application to the Oxford clinical school, because he doesn't have any Merits - they obviously worry about applications to clinical school over there too!


definitely. our % of people applying is probably self selecting because of the common-knowledge-type-rumours of what you need academically to be likely to get straight back in, at least..

the medics i know of who applied to london ~1/2 put it as first because they thought they'd be wasting their time reapplying to Ox.. :frown:
sbailey
I'm at St John's. Don't hate me for it, though. :biggrin: Which college were you at?

I don't think their students are superior to ours, no. I'm not going to deny that there may be favouritism, but I do know that Oxford applicants have an 85% success rate, and that those who apply will be the students who reckon they have a chance of getting in (so 85% of good students get in). Perhaps after this round of admissions I will have a more informed opinion on this matter, but I don't think the system is that unfair. It's certainly competitive, though, and I wish it wasn't!

What would you say is required of a Cambridge applicant to have a good chance of getting in? My Oxford friend spoke to one of his tutors on my behalf (I didn't ask him to!) and was told that a 1st in the first or the second year is enough to be fairly sure of getting a place, providing you haven't failed any exams or got less than a 2:1 along the way. Do you think this was an exaggeration? He's actually worried about his own application to the Oxford clinical school, because he doesn't have any Merits - they obviously worry about applications to clinical school over there too!

EDIT: P.S. If you want to dispense any advice on which clinical schools to consider applying to, I'm all ears! :smile: Was GKT your first choice or were you keen on somewhere else?

I got rejected from cam despite solid 2.1 average. GKT was 3rd choice below UCL.
love the place

i was at corpus incidently. - was asking your college cos im in the transfer soc and was wondering if i knew any of these gkters you speak of.
they'll know me anyway, even if i dont know them
Sorry totally random: how many choices do you get, and what happens if you are rejected by all of your choices?
Reply 38
Elles
definitely. our % of people applying is probably self selecting because of the common-knowledge-type-rumours of what you need academically to be likely to get straight back in, at least..

the medics i know of who applied to london ~1/2 put it as first because they thought they'd be wasting their time reapplying to Ox.. :frown:


It's a shame there aren't enough places for everyone to stay where they originally applied. I know it wouldn't suit everyone, but the lack of reapplication and the ensuing disappointment for many people would be an improvement on the current system.

Jamie
I got rejected from cam despite solid 2.1 average. GKT was 3rd choice below UCL.
love the place


Sorry to hear that. I have heard that there have been some years when the competition at Cambridge was very high and the choices made by admissions have been highly controversial, e.g. people with 1sts being rejected. Glad you're enjoying GKT, though. I've been told it was the most popular London med school this year among Cambridge applicants, although I don't know where the figures were from.

Jamie
i was at corpus incidently. - was asking your college cos im in the transfer soc and was wondering if i knew any of these gkters you speak of.
they'll know me anyway, even if i dont know them

Mel, Vinny and Hayley are some names off the top of my head. Mel's a high flier - she came 16th in the second year exams. I think there were others from my college too but I can't be sure. Thinking about what I said earlier, there isn't only one person who is staying on at Cambridge - there are at least two people I can think of, but out of 16 it's still not very many!
Reply 39
darkenergy
Sorry totally random: how many choices do you get, and what happens if you are rejected by all of your choices?


I don't know if this is true, but oddly, I think Cambridge may be forced to take you on. Jamie, is that right?

And I believe it's 3 choices you get.