Tony Blair is pushing it now!!!!! Watch

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Bigcnee
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#61
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#61
(Original post by happysunshine)
If someone truely wants to go to university, then they will.
In happy Free-land, maybe.
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Matt the cat
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#62
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(Original post by Jools)
Yet another ill-informed judgement. What's discouraging people is that they don't know the facts, and think they all have to pay £3k a year... in fairness the proposals really must be spelt out in English.

Basically it's maximum £3k a year for those (parents) can afford it, if you're poor you don't have to pay squat. You only pay back the fees once you've graduated ("You don't pay zip till ur blinging" according to those awful government adverts), and only pay them back at a rate of about 10% of your wage so it shouldn't be an overburdening of debt.

And if it reduces the number of people going to university then that's actually a good thing - their strive to make more and more people go to uni means last year there were 42 graduates applying per job, compared to 37 last year. The degree is being devalued whilst there's much less competition over other skilled and well decently paid jobs which don't require an academic degree.

And universities are about to face a funding crisis - already top institutions like Durham have had to close down departments because they have no funding. How else should the Government fund education? The NUS idea of having a free grant for every student means £6.6bn a year expenditure = economic ludicracy.

At present the people who complain about £1100 tuition fees annually are the often the same ones who then boast about spending £40 in a night on booze, and spend summer dossing. Spend your vacations in paid employment and you can easily afford university. And be more prepared come graduation.
Well said... i agree with the introduction of tuition fees. It is clear an blatently obvious that no one wants to spend money when they dont have to, even the people that can afford it. Because of this i think that the government has been very cautious in thier proposals of tuition fees and have tried very hard not to contradict themselves by providing a disincentive into higher education. The proposed tuition fees should be introduced. If they are not then i think the UK's first rate array of unis will be certianly find themselves in financial dificulty and all these people that have been moaning about the introsuction fees will then start moaning about the huge increase in cost of accomodation, library fees and especially in clinical subjects....although one thing that is not taken into consideration is the size of a family... its only the total income that is taken into account (i think). But then all situations are different arn't they? and they have to try and provide some kind of generic model, non-the less i still think that the system should be adapted for that circumstance
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Kurdt Morello
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#63
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#63
(Original post by kildare)
It's better to deal with the facts as they are rather than make groundless assumptions. A good university would always want to take in the best students based on academic rather than monetary criteria anyway. Even if it was purely for economic reasons.
we arent talking groundless thank u very much - we are talking logical progression here - what is to stop a future govt. introducing such a measure - as i said b4 once u start something then it is likely to be taken advantage of - nobody can keep promises all the time in the long run - just look at Labour manifesto 2001 where they promised the voters they would not consider top-up fees in this parliament (the one we are in) What a u-turn! and in only 2 yrs
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Bigcnee
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#64
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I don't honestly think that students who have said they agree with the new tuition fees have looked through to see what it would cost them.
It is all well and good saying;
"Yes, they are fine." When clearly not many of us will have to pay them.
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happysunshine
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Bigcnee)
In happy Free-land, maybe.
Well then why am I not put off university? I'm not from a pretty rich background nor are my friends. We are clever enough to weigh up the posatives of gaining a degree.
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Bigcnee
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#66
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#66
(Original post by happysunshine)
Well then why am I not put off university? I'm not from a pretty rich background nor are my friends. We are clever enough to weigh up the posatives of gaining a degree.
What does "not from a pretty rich background" mean?
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happysunshine
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Bigcnee)
What does "not from a pretty rich background" mean?
LOL we don't sit round and drink tea.
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kildare
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#68
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(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
we arent talking groundless thank u very much - we are talking logical progression here - what is to stop a future govt. introducing such a measure - as i said b4 once u start something then it is likely to be taken advantage of - nobody can keep promises all the time in the long run - just look at Labour manifesto 2001 where they promised the voters they would not consider top-up fees in this parliament (the one we are in) What a u-turn! and in only 2 yrs
There is nothing to stop them... there is nothing to stop them doing a whole host of other things though. Considering the opposition to this proposal from Blair's own party and the positions of the other parties on the issue I can't see it happening though.
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Bigcnee
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#69
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(Original post by happysunshine)
LOL we don't sit round and drink tea.
lol. That should be a new condition on Labours taxation policy
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kildare
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#70
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Bigcnee: Could you reply to my post earlier in my thread, I'm just wondering if I have overlooked something myself.
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Kurdt Morello
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#71
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(Original post by happysunshine)
Well then why am I not put off university? I'm not from a pretty rich background nor are my friends. We are clever enough to weigh up the posatives of gaining a degree.
Hey i had to get a scholarship AND an assisted place for my public school - i dont feel comfortable with tuition fees especially since i intend to become a barrister - a notoriously competitive profession with not much pay either. tuition fees certainly wouldnt encourage me to stay on an extra year to do a masters in law - which i what i would like to do
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happysunshine
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#72
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Anyway, how can the poorest students be dettered from uni when they get money if their parents have a joint salary of under £15,000?
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happysunshine
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
Hey i had to get a scholarship AND an assisted place for my public school - i dont feel comfortable with tuition fees especially since i intend to become a barrister - a notoriously competitive profession with not much pay either. tuition fees certainly wouldnt encourage me to stay on an extra year to do a masters in law - which i what i would like to do
Well at least you have a choice, even if it means you getting into a bit of debt.
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kildare
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#74
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If you want to really help poorer students, considering that the marginal benefit deriving from money put in decreases with every extra year of education you, investing heavily at the early stages of education seems to make more sense.
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kildare
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#75
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(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
become a barrister - a notoriously competitive profession with not much pay either.
Barristers are amongst the highest earners in the country ???
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Bigcnee
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#76
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(Original post by kildare)
Therefore if they were from poorer familes that would pay less in the form of top up fees after graduation, no?
Hmm... not sure whether the fees/grants/repayment structures mean less repayment: I'll need to get back to you on this. The plans are OK on v.poor students, I'm just worried about the graduate repayment tax.

(Original post by kildare)
Their contribution will only be a higher proportion of their income's if they end up being poorer themselves. Why would their parents income have an effect on their future salaries?
THe second point wasn't meant as a reference to their parents income, I just meant it as an aside point, sorry.
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Kurdt Morello
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#77
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(Original post by kildare)
There is nothing to stop them... there is nothing to stop them doing a whole host of other things though. Considering the opposition to this proposal from Blair's own party and the positions of the other parties on the issue I can't see it happening though.
You are wrong because u cant reverse the process and it can only spiral out of control - no measure ever stays the same and u would be naive to think otherwise. Also u underestimate how expedient politicians and governments are - if the Tories or the Lib Dems got in after the top-up fees introduction- or even if labour and Blair retained power they would want to improve the measure. re: blair's party are now onside thanks to the party whips
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Bigcnee
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#78
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(Original post by happysunshine)
Anyway, how can the poorest students be dettered from uni when they get money if their parents have a joint salary of under £15,000?
They still need to pay for living costs and accomodation.
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Kurdt Morello
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#79
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#79
(Original post by kildare)
Barristers are amongst the highest earners in the country ???
not when u start out - the first years are concerned with surviving on scraps of cases until u develop a strong reputation in the Bar - for me those yrs would be spent struggling - in fact a lot of barristers drop out of their circuit or are sometimes dropped because they dont do enough cases and are struggling financially
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LH
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#80
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#80
(Original post by kildare)
Barristers are amongst the highest earners in the country ???
Certainly, once established, Gordon Pollock, QC, has just been given £3 million ahead of his case against the Bank of England and should have earned £5 million by the time the case finishes in 2005.

And once barristers are experienced, all earn a very good wage.
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