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    (Original post by Kurdt Morello)
    You are wrong because u cant reverse the process and it can only spiral out of control - no measure ever stays the same and u would be naive to think otherwise. Also u underestimate how expedient politicians and governments are - if the Tories or the Lib Dems got in after the top-up fees introduction- or even if labour and Blair retained power they would want to improve the measure. re: blair's party are now onside thanks to the party whips
    -I never suggested reversing the process

    -"It can only spiral out of control" - pure speculation

    -If the other parties got into power I doubt they would increase top up fees ( I can only base this on their own stated policy)

    -Again, maybe they will seek to to "improve" the measure, maybe they won't. You're just engaging in guesswork though, you haven't substantiated your case with any hard evidence.
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    (Original post by Kurdt Morello)
    not when u start out - the first years are concerned with surviving on scraps of cases until u develop a strong reputation in the Bar - for me those yrs would be spent struggling - in fact a lot of barristers drop out of their circuit or are sometimes dropped because they dont do enough cases and are struggling financially
    Perhaps, but you can only speak comparitivly and on average barristers are paid much better than people from the vast majority of other professions.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    Certainly, once established, Gordon Pollock, QC, has just been given £3 million ahead of his case against the Bank of England and should have earned £5 million by the time the case finishes in 2005.
    Little relevance to the vast majority of barristers.

    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    And once barristers are experienced, all earn a very good wage.
    If they make it.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    They still need to pay for living costs and accomodation.
    I can accept and even agree with many of your arguements with regards to tution fees themselves. However, top up fees will only be paid back after the student graduates and is in full time employment. Why would parental income still be relevant at this stage?
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    (Original post by kildare)
    -I never suggested reversing the process

    -"It can only spiral out of control" - pure speculation

    -If the other parties got into power I doubt they would increase top up fees ( I can only base this on their own stated policy)

    -Again, maybe they will seek to to "improve" the measure, maybe they won't. You're just engaging in guesswork though, you haven't substantiated your case with any hard evidence.
    i never suggested that u had - i was merely making a comparative point that if u cant reverse it the only way is forward and deeper into the hole.
    ur 'doubt' is based on stated policy - wasnt it Labour's stated policy in 2001 that the govt. would not engage in any discussions concerning top-up fees?
    Guesswork? i think not! I base my judgements on precedent
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Little relevance to the vast majority of barristers.



    If they make it.

    It is his choice to become a barrister though, he is not forced into it.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Little relevance to the vast majority of barristers.



    If they make it.
    Well, there has been a level of about 10,000 barristers for a long time now so obviously only so many can make it, but once they do they are certainly not notorious for being 'under-paid'. I would reserve such a term for the nursing profession.
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    (Original post by kildare)
    I can accept and even agree with many of your arguements with regards to tution fees themselves. However, top up fees will only be paid back after the student graduates and is in full time employment. Why would parental income still be relevant at this stage?
    Living costs (for me)

    £2500 rent per year
    £1050 food, hygeine
    £1000 miscellaneous
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Where did you get this from?
    the white paper
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    (Original post by kildare)
    It is his choice to become a barrister though, he is not forced into it.
    The best laid plans of Mice and Men.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    Well, there has been a level of about 10,000 barristers for a long time now so obviously only so many can make it, but once they do they are certainly not notorious for being 'under-paid'. I would reserve such a term for the nursing profession.
    How many of those 10,000 came from a poorer background though - i think u'll find that barristers are mostly upper class or upperMiddle-class and their families could afford to foot the bill - in the past the poorer ones have dropped out due to financial pressures
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    Well, there has been a level of about 10,000 barristers for a long time now so obviously only so many can make it, but once they do they are certainly not notorious for being 'under-paid'. I would reserve such a term for the nursing profession.
    I would have to agree.
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    (Original post by Kurdt Morello)
    i never suggested that u had - i was merely making a comparative point that if u cant reverse it the only way is forward and deeper into the hole.
    ur 'doubt' is based on stated policy - wasnt it Labour's stated policy in 2001 that the govt. would not engage in any discussions concerning top-up fees?
    Guesswork? i think not! I base my judgements on precedent
    - You can indeed reverse the process if you wish, there is no law preventing you from doing this. I would not suggest that this is what will happen, I'm merely pointing out that it would be foolish to speculate on which one of the numerous possibile decisons a future governement would make on the subject without evidence.

    -I can only work on 'stated policy' because I have no other evidence with which to play with. I'm not suggesting that 'stated policy' should be taken as gospel, only that without anything to suggest otherwise I don't see why one should automatically assume that this will be broken.

    -Precendent can have credibility if you suggest that it is perhaps more likely that change will be made because of past actions, but to suggest that it definitly WILL happen because of it is as I've said before pure speculation.
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    (Original post by Kurdt Morello)
    How many of those 10,000 came from a poorer background though - i think u'll find that barristers are mostly upper class or upperMiddle-class and their families could afford to foot the bill - in the past the poorer ones have dropped out due to financial pressures
    Well, as you attempt to become a barrister, bare this in mind - most of the best barristers have been those from poor backgrounds who have worked their way into the system.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    The best laid plans of Mice and Men.
    i want to become a barrister because i love the law, mooting and the obvious financial gains if i do really well - but i embark upon this path in the full knowledge that it is tough in the first few years - top-up fees would make it more difficult
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Living costs (for me)

    £2500 rent per year
    £1050 food, hygeine
    £1000 miscellaneous
    These costs are irrespective of top up fees though?
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    Well, as you attempt to become a barrister, bare this in mind - most of the best barristers have been those from poor backgrounds who have worked their way into the system.
    I think u might have fallen victim to the fairytale charms of 'Judge John Deed' lol
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    The best laid plans of Mice and Men.
    Quite. Do you have a better solution though?
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    (Original post by Kurdt Morello)
    I think u might have fallen victim to the fairytale charms of 'Judge John Deed' lol
    however this is a moot point
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    (Original post by Kurdt Morello)
    i want to become a barrister because i love the law, mooting and the obvious financial gains if i do really well - but i embark upon this path in the full knowledge that it is tough in the first few years - top-up fees would make it more difficult
    Fair enough, the government has to consider the overall benefit to society though, and investing in primary schools in underprivelged areas will probably have more of an effect on this than helping you would.

    As well as this you still only lose 9% (over 15,000) of your salary, surely a small sacrifice to make if you really do love the law?
 
 
 
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