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subjective subjects.

Hello TSR

would you agree that some subjects have more subjective marking methods than others? for example, i personally think that it is easier to feel confident to get an A in mathematics than something arty like music or english, where the examiner may not like the way you perform/write even if your teacher thought your work was great.

Do you think that in oxbridge (and other universities as well) the admissions tutors will take into account the SUBJECTS you actually took at A/S?

Reply 1

Alewhey

candystrippa

Hello TSR

would you agree that some subjects have more subjective marking methods than others? for example, i personally think that it is easier to feel confident to get an A in mathematics than something arty like music or english, where the examiner may not like the way you perform/write even if your teacher thought your work was great.

Do you think that in oxbridge (and other universities as well) the admissions tutors will take into account the SUBJECTS you actually took at A/S?

I have another question. Would you agree that being kicked in the head is generally a negative thing?

Damn, the internet is making me cranky.

Reply 2

Mop

candystrippa

Do you think that in oxbridge (and other universities as well) the admissions tutors will take into account the SUBJECTS you actually took at A/S?

Yes. If I applied for natsci with English, History, Business Studies and Art ASs, I probably wouldn't get an offer :rolleyes:

.

EDIT: Alewhey: not really. It's character building.

Reply 3

musicbloke

17

There is a difference between a good essay and a **** one. That is clear. There are also pretty firm marking criteria for arts subjects at A level. Yes, they might not be as simple as maths (where you can go into the exam knowing that you'll get an A if you've done all the work), but I'd argue the greater difference is in the range of questions that can come up. You never know what your essay will be on, whereas everyone knows what will come up in a maths or science paper. On the other hand, QCA try and make A levels as comparable as possible.

MB

Reply 4

dappleddawndrawndauphin

3

candystrippa

Hello TSR

would you agree that some subjects have more subjective marking methods than others? for example, i personally think that it is easier to feel confident to get an A in mathematics than something arty like music or english, where the examiner may not like the way you perform/write even if your teacher thought your work was great.

Do you think that in oxbridge (and other universities as well) the admissions tutors will take into account the SUBJECTS you actually took at A/S?

er... if you mean will they be more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt if they applied for English with a B/C in the AS than if they applied for Mathematics with a B/C in the AS, I wouldn't think so... It may be true that maths is easier to mark than English, but in the end if the examiners know their stuff it should be fairly obvious to them what grade people deserve. Just as you wouldn't think a maths examiner would mark someone down because they preferred a different method of working a sum, you wouldn't think an English examiner would mark someone down for having a different opinion, etc. If you look at English/music/history assessment criteria they are fairly clear on what they're looking for. Anyway even if it made sense it would be totally unfair to take that into account, and if anything would discredit subjects such as English and Music by implying that the grades carry less meaning due to their being 'subjective subjects'. Right that probably made no sense (my brain is once again dead) but moving on.

As Mop said I think the subjects taken matter only in terms of their relevance to your subject, and even then there are often only 1 or 2 (or in the case of geography and history I think, no) subjects deemed essential at AS.

Reply 5

CamSPSer

candystrippa

Hello TSR

would you agree that some subjects have more subjective marking methods than others? for example, i personally think that it is easier to feel confident to get an A in mathematics than something arty like music or english, where the examiner may not like the way you perform/write even if your teacher thought your work was great.

Do you think that in oxbridge (and other universities as well) the admissions tutors will take into account the SUBJECTS you actually took at A/S?

Of course they take into account the subjects. However I'd like to see their faces when someome tried to explain the reason they got a poor mark was because the examiner disagreeed with your views. Of the people who got good marks in my subjects there were people who were both right and left wing who got As. If its well written with good analysis and evaluation you should do well. Look at the marking schemes, you just have to make sure you tick all the boxes. If examiners decided to mark you down because you come to a different conclusion to what they do then we would have a heck of a lot of remarks

Reply 6

dappleddawndrawndauphin

3

musicbloke

There is a difference between a good essay and a **** one. That is clear. There are also pretty firm marking criteria for arts subjects at A level. Yes, they might not be as simple as maths (where you can go into the exam knowing that you'll get an A if you've done all the work), but I'd argue the greater difference is in the range of questions that can come up. You never know what your essay will be on, whereas everyone knows what will come up in a maths or science paper. On the other hand, QCA try and make A levels as comparable as possible.

MB

That's a good point though; there probably are a wider range of qs that can come up. But the point of English seems to be knowing the text well enough to tackle anything they give you (although if they ask things you wrote essays on in class it's a real bonus ...). I'd imagine it's harder at university to predict the type of questions that will come up.

Reply 7

anycon

11

YES. My B in English was totally undeserved.

Reply 8

recurring

11

You did have a good personal statement though. It was really groovy.

Reply 9

Mop

musicbloke

You never know what your essay will be on

I disagree. When I did AS History, you could guarantee that variations of "What caused the Russian Revolution of 1905?" and "What caused the Russian Revolution of 1917?" would be asked, and it was just a case of altering a model answers you had prepared for the questions slightly to fit the specifics they asked for.

Reply 10

musicbloke

17

Mop

I disagree. When I did AS History, you could guarantee that variations of "What caused the Russian Revolution of 1905?" and "What caused the Russian Revolution of 1917?" would be asked, and it was just a case of altering a model answers you had prepared for the questions slightly to fit the specifics they asked for.

Ok, well there are certainly some subjects where you just don't know. Often you'll know which topics will come up, and you have a good idea what sort of questions might come up on each topic. but on the day it can be really random.

MB

Reply 11

H&E

3

MB: So far as my A-levels went, the opposite was the case. For history questions were relatively predictable because to write history essays you need a basis of knowledge, producing a range of questions severly limited by how much candidates could be expected to know. Further Maths, on the other hand, used a fairly well known range of tools but a variety of different techniques, combined in infinitely many ways. It was damn near impossible to predict precisely which specific technique you'd need to apply and how.

At Oxford it's a bit different. One of my papers I knew the questions before hand, one I had absolutely no idea, and couldn't have written a paragraph on 50% of the question on the paper. It just depends on the specification.

Reply 12

Mop

Similarly, Tripos maths exams tend to have questions that are fairly unique and require actual thought, rather than just blindly applying a method you've used for hundreds of similar questions previously.

Reply 13

musicbloke

17

Yes, but with maths papers (at least on edexcel), if you'd done all the questions in the book (that would maybe take you a couple of weeks), then they couldn't give you any questions you hadn't seen before. I don't know wbout further modules though. For music, I had a hard job predicting which questions would come up - there were questions on unseen pieces and broad periods. As for tripos it's been pretty mixed. For ethnomusicology I knew exactly what would come up. For nineteenth century (yes, it was a really broad paper) I assumed I'd get a question on Wagner and one one cult of Beethoven or some historicist thing, and they just didn't come up - ended up answering on Schumann and Mendelssohn, and then on some Italian opera I think.

MB

Reply 14

Comp_Genius

4

Further modules for Maths were the same. If you have done all the questions in the Heinamann books then you are very unlikely to go wrong in the actual exam.

Reply 15

Mata

16

musicbloke

Ok, well there are certainly some subjects where you just don't know. Often you'll know which topics will come up, and you have a good idea what sort of questions might come up on each topic. but on the day it can be really random.

MB

Mostly true, I think. However for a subject such as eng lit, you'd know the text and relevent quotes from the text, which you could use for almost any question. In my experience, I'd rather have a good base of knowledge so that I can pretty much patch together an answer, than be in a maths exam and just not know how to do something.

Part of the beauty of subjective subjects is that if you can back up your viewpoint, you can pretty much write anything you want, within reason. It makes exams a lot easier. Oh, you also have the opportunity to look at an argument from more than one side, so that even if the examiner doesn't agree with your thoughts on the matter, he/she can still mark your wonderful analysis. :p:

Reply 16

CamSPSer

With humanities such as history you get a wider range of questions at A-level than you do in maths etc. Therefore even if you get a wider range of questions you can be certain that, if you revise properly, you will be able to answer a question

Reply 17

RxB

1

Plus, in maths etc all the questions are compulsory. In History, I had a choice.

Reply 18

fire-faery

2

*Bethany*

It may be true that maths is easier to mark than English, but in the end if the examiners know their stuff it should be fairly obvious to them what grade people deserve...they are fairly clear on what they're looking for.

key word here is "should" - however it is obvious that either a) they have a lot of markers who simply can't follow these "clear" mark schemes or b) the mark schemes are irrelevant/arbitrary, because more often than not it is completely impossible to guarantee a standardised approach to "subjective subjects" - just talking about at A level/GCSE standard here. my mum is an english teacher and regularly has remarks of GCSE that move up or down 3 or 4 grades, there's usually one or two that go from a U to an A.

as for A level music, i know someone who got an AS composition marked 4 times (twice in AS year, then had to resubmit the same composition 'cause he was retaking a different part of the same paper & got it remarked again in A2 year), and the grade fluctuated between about 20 marks (out of 60), up, then down, then down, then up again.

*Bethany*

Anyway even if it made sense it would be totally unfair to take that into account, and if anything would discredit subjects such as English and Music by implying that the grades carry less meaning due to their being 'subjective subjects'.

hear, hear. let's pretend it works for now, eh?
in response to the original question, i guess interviews compensate for any such discrepancies in marking methods etc...

Reply 19

coldfish

12

To a certain extent, I have to agree that there can be some worrying differences in opinion on what grade an essay in the humanities deserves. For my RS synoptic paper, we were told the question in advance and had to prepare an essay to answer it. My teachers read through my essay, and were just bursting with compliments about it.
I got a D for that paper.

subjective subjects.

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