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LH
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#141
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#141
(Original post by yawn1)
I can't let that observation go unanswered LH!
Some people have no problem with private education - if folks choose to spend their money in this way that's fine.
However, some people will pay for their sprogs to get into a grammar (by way of private primary or private tutoring) so as they can then get what they perceive as an equivalent education for free. Therein lies the ethical dilemma.
But I would see it as, in an education system, the amount of money your parents have should not matter. Intelligence is what gets you the best grades and means you are at the top of the education system, so to me it seems fair that the most intelligent get special treatment.
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Harry Potter
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#142
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#142
(Original post by Harry Potter)
Improvement on KS3!!!?!?? Comprehensives do crap at KS3 and crap at GCSE, grammar schools do well at KS3 and well at GCSE. Therefore they have the same value added. I don't see what the surpise is there.
To the person who repped me for this:

1. Grammar schools are free. I go to a grammar school because my parents couldn't afford to send me and my brother to private school.

2. You get one rep point for every hundred posts, I think, so you're rep isn't worth anything yet.
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happysunshine
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#143
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#143
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Loads of people have heard of him. You must have seen one of his programmes?
Oh I've seen him before. But I think Schama is much better.
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happysunshine
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#144
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#144
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
How do they 'help things'? That is an incredibly vague statement.
I thought they were bad, but they are not as it has been pointed out to me several times.

It saves the tax payers money and puts less strain on our state run schools. Although their are bad points too.
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LH
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#145
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#145
(Original post by happysunshine)
Oh I've seen him before. But I think Schama is much better.
Well you hadn't head of him yesterday.
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happysunshine
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#146
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#146
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Well you hadn't head of him yesterday.
I found his photo.
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LH
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#147
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#147
(Original post by happysunshine)
I thought they were bad, but they are not as it has been pointed out to me several times.

It saves the tax payers money and puts less strain on our state run schools. Although their are bad points too.
But they still favour the rich.

Surely you don't belive in a society where the rich, rather than the academically gifted, are given the best education?
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happysunshine
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#148
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#148
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
But they still favour the rich.

Surely you don't belive in a society where the rich, rather than the academically gifted, are given the best education?
I favour that academically gifted and that's why I don't like grammar schools.
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LH
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#149
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#149
(Original post by happysunshine)
I favour that academically gifted and that's why I don't like grammar schools.
But grammar schools ensure the academically gifted have the best education the state can give them in a good learning environment. Not all comprehensives can offer this.
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happysunshine
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#150
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#150
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
But grammar schools ensure the academically gifted have the best education the state can give them in a good learning environment. Not all comprehensives can offer this.
Yes exactly. I'm pretty bright and I'm sure I don't get as good as education as yourself.
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LH
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#151
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#151
(Original post by happysunshine)
Yes exactly. I'm pretty bright and I'm sure I don't get as good as education as yourself.
But if there were grammars in your area then you would have a chance to gain such an education. Which is why you should support having more grammars, as one who has missed out on the opportunity.
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happysunshine
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#152
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#152
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
But if there were grammars in your area then you would have a chance to gain such an education. Which is why you should support having more grammars, as one who has missed out on the opportunity.
The way you put it then I should support them. And I would only if those who weren't so bright didn't miss out on having a good education. If you take away all the top students then you'll be left with students which the majority of them are very distructive to the education of others.
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LH
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#153
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#153
(Original post by happysunshine)
Yes exactly. I'm pretty bright and I'm sure I don't get as good as education as yourself.
Additionally, are you saying you think that everyone's education should be dragged down to one middle level rather than allowing the brightest to have an excellent education just for the sake of fairness?
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happysunshine
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#154
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#154
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Additionally, are you saying you think that everyone's education should be dragged down to one middle level rather than allowing the brightest to have an excellent education just for the sake of fairness?
I still believe that the world will not get better unless everyone is living bove a certain standard. And I apply that to everything.

Who would teach at schools with only a bunch of thick/rough kids?
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yawn1
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#155
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#155
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Additionally, are you saying you think that everyone's education should be dragged down to one middle level rather than allowing the brightest to have an excellent education just for the sake of fairness?
Shame on you LH - trying to spread your propaganda in my absence! :mad:
You know very well from all the discussions on this board relating to selection that it is not the case that 'everyone's education is dragged down to one middle level' without the presence of Grammars. It has been said time and time again that comprehensive education allows for pupils of equivalent intelligence to be taught in streamed and set groups. The only places this doesn't happen is where there are Grammars in the area which 'cream off' the top quartile leaving those other schools with the rest of the 75%.
You talk about the academically 'gifted' - do you know what is meant by that? If you are talking about the top quartile then they are not 'gifted' - just above average in Britain. If you mean the top 2% then you are correct in terming them as 'academically gifted'. And as a matter of interest those 2% are found in comprehensives much more frequently than in grammars! Even though you may retort that the reason is because there are more comps it is still a fact that the very brightest are found in comps
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yawn1
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#156
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#156
(Original post by happysunshine)
I still believe that the world will not get better unless everyone is living bove a certain standard. And I apply that to everything.

Who would teach at schools with only a bunch of thick/rough kids?
You have hit the nail on the head!
Look at a prime example of this at The Ramsgate School on BBC online - education section - it has the ignoble distinction of being the worst scondary in the country. This, in an LEA which has total selection.
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LH
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#157
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#157
(Original post by yawn1)
Shame on you LH - trying to spread your propaganda in my absence! :mad:
You know very well from all the discussions on this board relating to selection that it is not the case that 'everyone's education is dragged down to one middle level' without the presence of Grammars. It has been said time and time again that comprehensive education allows for pupils of equivalent intelligence to be taught in streamed and set groups. The only places this doesn't happen is where there are Grammars in the area which 'cream off' the top quartile leaving those other schools with the rest of the 75%.
You talk about the academically 'gifted' - do you know what is meant by that? If you are talking about the top quartile then they are not 'gifted' - just above average in Britain. If you mean the top 2% then you are correct in terming them as 'academically gifted'. And as a matter of interest those 2% are found in comprehensives much more frequently than in grammars! Even though you may retort that the reason is because there are more comps it is still a fact that the very brightest are found in comps
Of course, in many areas there are only comps - the brightest there don't have much choice, do they?

OK then, the academically above average, if you prefer that term. They will still be the people in the top jobs in the future.
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LH
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#158
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#158
(Original post by yawn1)
You have hit the nail on the head!
Look at a prime example of this at The Ramsgate School on BBC online - education section - it has the ignoble distinction of being the worst scondary in the country. This, in an LEA which has total selection.
Well that is appalling but it is only one school.

If you look at the schools in the Lancashire LEA, you have the three grammars, one or two good comps which are heavily over-subscribed and then loads of crap comps. The grammars, rather than using a lottery or siblings first method like the good comps, take in only on academic ability, which seems very fair to me to decide who gets the best education until the other comps are sorted out.
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me!
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#159
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#159
(Original post by Harry Potter)
If you got 7, E.P., E.P., that's very good. I'm sorry if my post was offensive. When I said comps have 'lower-calibre' students I just meant that grammar schools have more intelligent students on average, because they only take the top 25%. Obviously, it would be ridiculous to make generalizations about individual students at comprehensives, especially since most areas don't have any grammar schools.
I didn't get those levels, one of my mates did, but he didn't pass his 11+... But if grammar schools only take the top 25% of students then what about things like the UK Maths Challenges and stuff like that which are aimed at the top 3rd of the nation in mathmatic ability, and only 40% of those actually score high enough to get a bronze, silver or gold... It doesn't make sense...
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LH
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#160
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#160
(Original post by me!)
I didn't get those levels, one of my mates did, but he didn't pass his 11+... But if grammar schools only take the top 25% of students then what about things like the UK Maths Challenges and stuff like that which are aimed at the top 3rd of the nation in mathmatic ability, and only 40% of those actually score high enough to get a bronze, silver or gold... It doesn't make sense...
I didn't think you could get higher than a 7 in anything other tham Maths now :confused:
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