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yawn1
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#161
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#161
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Of course, in many areas there are only comps - the brightest there don't have much choice, do they?

OK then, the academically above average, if you prefer that term. They will still be the people in the top jobs in the future.
Whilst I agree with you that the most academically able will in all probability be in the top jobs I don't agree that they will have been taught in Grammar schools because:
Grammars will cease to exist because of the rise in success of Specialist Schools - they will, as a result, sink into oblivion
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me!
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#162
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#162
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
But grammar schools ensure the academically gifted have the best education the state can give them in a good learning environment. Not all comprehensives can offer this.
That's very true. But at a comp you have to deal with a broader range of people which gives a much wider education in the long run. Also if you're going to do well in your education then you'll do well anywhere, it depends what type of person you are and what your potential is.

It's not how intelligent you are, it's what you do with it that counts.
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LH
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#163
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#163
(Original post by yawn1)
Whilst I agree with you that the most academically able will in all probability be in the top jobs I don't agree that they will have been taught in Grammar schools because:
Grammars will cease to exist because of the rise in success of Specialist Schools - they will, as a result, sink into oblivion
I would have thought a grammar is a specialist school?

I think the reamining ones will survive. We have had a Labour government for nearly seven years and they have been very shy about abolishing grammars.
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Harry Potter
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#164
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#164
(Original post by me!)
I didn't get those levels, one of my mates did, but he didn't pass his 11+... But if grammar schools only take the top 25% of students then what about things like the UK Maths Challenges and stuff like that which are aimed at the top 3rd of the nation in mathmatic ability, and only 40% of those actually score high enough to get a bronze, silver or gold... It doesn't make sense...
I'm not really sure what you mean.
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yawn1
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#165
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#165
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
I would have thought a grammar is a specialist school?

I think the reamining ones will survive. We have had a Labour government for nearly seven years and they have been very shy about abolishing grammars.
No - they're just bog standard grammars - lol
I'm sure I already mentioned my thoughts on why Labour have not yet got rid of selection in another post. They don't want to upset too many of their voters - they did this already when they abolished assisted places for the 'gifted'. So they have seen their opportunity to realise their ideology by using specialist status as a means of ridding the country of grammars instead. That's my theory anyway.
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me!
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#166
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#166
(Original post by yawn1)
Shame on you LH - trying to spread your propaganda in my absence! :mad:
You know very well from all the discussions on this board relating to selection that it is not the case that 'everyone's education is dragged down to one middle level' without the presence of Grammars. It has been said time and time again that comprehensive education allows for pupils of equivalent intelligence to be taught in streamed and set groups. The only places this doesn't happen is where there are Grammars in the area which 'cream off' the top quartile leaving those other schools with the rest of the 75%.
You talk about the academically 'gifted' - do you know what is meant by that? If you are talking about the top quartile then they are not 'gifted' - just above average in Britain. If you mean the top 2% then you are correct in terming them as 'academically gifted'. And as a matter of interest those 2% are found in comprehensives much more frequently than in grammars! Even though you may retort that the reason is because there are more comps it is still a fact that the very brightest are found in comps
I agree one hundred %. btw do you go to a state, grammar or private?
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Harry Potter
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#167
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#167
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
I would have thought a grammar is a specialist school?

I think the reamining ones will survive. We have had a Labour government for nearly seven years and they have been very shy about abolishing grammars.
Yeah, grammars can be specialist schools, but they don't have to be. I think most will try and apply for specialist status soon because they get so much more money.
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me!
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#168
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#168
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
I didn't think you could get higher than a 7 in anything other tham Maths now :confused:
I'm in year 11 now, so it was 2 years ago.
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Harry Potter
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#169
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#169
(Original post by yawn1)
No - they're just bog standard grammars - lol
I'm sure I already mentioned my thoughts on why Labour have not yet got rid of selection in another post. They don't want to upset too many of their voters - they did this already when they abolished assisted places for the 'gifted'. So they have seen their opportunity to realise their ideology by using specialist status as a means of ridding the country of grammars instead. That's my theory anyway.
My school is a specialist school and a grammar school.
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yawn1
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#170
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#170
(Original post by me!)
I agree one hundred %. btw do you go to a state, grammar or private?
I went to a state comprehensive and received an excellent education which I hope is evident from the content of my posts
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LH
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#171
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#171
Well my schools a foundation school too, and it could have become a Technology College, but they decided not to as they would have had to change the ethos of the school.

As a selective foundation school, is my school not a specialist school?

There are our grammar schools spread around Lancashire, this does not seem unreasonable and many of the comps are good too,

This is how the spread of GCSE results is http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...8_gcse_lea.stm

Interestingly, out of the three schools in Clitheroe, all of which are very good, one a grammar, two comps, it was the grammar with the best 'added value' score.

Lancashire is very different from Kent and I believe it benefits from the grammar system.
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yawn1
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#172
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#172
(Original post by Harry Potter)
My school is a specialist school and a grammar school.
That proves my hypothesis imo. The specialist status will take precedence of the category of school in future.
Each school in a given area will have it's own speciality, hence, if you have an aptitude for languages, or sciences/maths, business, technology or sports you will go to the appropriate school.
Because of changes in 14-19 curriculum each specialist school will offer a personalised education according to whether one is suited for an academic or vocational career.
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LH
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#173
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#173
(Original post by yawn1)
That proves my hypothesis imo. The specialist status will take precedence of the category of school in future.
Each school in a given area will have it's own speciality, hence, if you have an aptitude for languages, or sciences/maths, business, technology or sports you will go to the appropriate school.
Because of changes in 14-19 curriculum each specialist school will offer a personalised education according to whether one is suited for an academic or vocational career.
So you're selecting which pupils should go to which schools?
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#174
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#174
(Original post by Harry Potter)
I'm not really sure what you mean.
Not many people are. Well if these competitions are aimed at the top 3rd and only 40% get an award or whatever then it would work out that people in comps very rarely get an award but many more in a grammar would. But a lot of people who go to comps do get awards.

Also if the most intelligent go to grammars then why would people in a comp get places at Maths Masterclasses run by the Maths Institution (or someplace like that, I can't remember) whereas no one from the grammar did?

In a previous post you say that you're not generalising about individual students at comps but you are.
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me!
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#175
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#175
(Original post by yawn1)
I went to a state comprehensive and received an excellent education which I hope is evident from the content of my posts
Yep
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LH
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#176
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#176
(Original post by me!)
Not many people do. Well if these competitions are aimed at the top 3rd and only 40% get an award or whatever then it would work out that people in comps very rarely get an award but many more in a grammar would. But a lot of people who go to comps do get awards.

Also if the most intelligent go to grammars then why would people in a comp get places at Maths Masterclasses run by the Maths Institution (or someplace like that, I can't remember) whereas no one from the grammar did?

In a previous post you say that you're not generalising about individual students at comps but you are.
You're clearly talking about Esex only.

These competitions are meant for the top third in Maths, but the top third won't all go to grammars! Some will, but some will attend private schools and some will attend comps.
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yawn1
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#177
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#177
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Well my schools a foundation school too, and it could have become a Technology College, but they decided not to as they would have had to change the ethos of the school.

As a selective foundation school, is my school not a specialist school?

There are our grammar schools spread around Lancashire, this does not seem unreasonable and many of the comps are good too,

This is how the spread of GCSE results is http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...8_gcse_lea.stm

Interestingly, out of the three schools in Clitheroe, all of which are very good, one a grammar, two comps, it was the grammar with the best 'added value' score.

Lancashire is very different from Kent and I believe it benefits from the grammar system.
Regarding your query on whether your school qualfies at present to be classed as a specialist school, no it doesn't. The fact it is a Foundation school means that it determines its' own admissions, that all.
You say your school has the best value-added scores - is that at both key stages? If so that could be down to the fact that it discourages pupils from taking GCSE's at which there is no guarantee that they will get all A*/A's. Without undermining the demands of GCSE's, it is p.ss easy for any pupils who is in top quartile to get all A*/B's. Grammars should be set far higher targets than 5 A*-C's because of the pupil population.
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LH
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#178
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#178
(Original post by yawn1)
Regarding your query on whether your school qualfies at present to be classed as a specialist school, no it doesn't. The fact it is a Foundation school means that it determines its' own admissions, that all.
You say your school has the best value-added scores - is that at both key stages? If so that could be down to the fact that it discourages pupils from taking GCSE's at which there is no guarantee that they will get all A*/A's. Without undermining the demands of GCSE's, it is p.ss easy for any pupils who is in top quartile to get all A*/B's. Grammars should be set far higher targets than 5 A*-C's because of the pupil population.
As far as I know no one has ever been withdrawn from an exam at CRGS.

Yes, it is at both key stages, but of course you believe the value added to KS3 to be fundamentally flawed, don't you?
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yawn1
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#179
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#179
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
So you're selecting which pupils should go to which schools?
No - the parent makes the decision which school is most suited to their child's aptitude - although in theory the schools can select up to 10% of their intake on 'aptitude' not ability, in practice the schools that do only represent less than 5% of the total of specialists.
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me!
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#180
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#180
I just looked at where my school is in the league tables for my LEA, it comes 15th out of 17.
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