for all you pro war people out there: Watch

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Kurdt Morello
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Sire)
Sensible post, well done. You are one of the few.
From what i am hearing about this video it seems like a classic example of the 'shoot anything that moves' psychology instilled by Generals to their G.I.s - just look at how they shot at us - this is the same with the Israelis - there is no mercy - as long as they kill as many people they can compete with the running tallies of their mates.
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Jonatan
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Sire)
Clear to see that you've never been in anything resembling a life threatening situation. Let me tell you that you either panic, or find yourself evaluating everything. The adrenalin factor allows this to happen, and you don't realise how fast everything is going. Yet there was nothing frantic about what the men in the chopper did. They simply didn't have any real fear there, and thus killed a wounded man they weren't even remotely afraid of.
Quite a condemming conlcuion to draw from a single video clip dont you think? When people are this certain about their assumptions and conclusion, It makes me wounder how well they have considdered the argument...
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GH
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Jonatan)
Quite a condemming conlcuion to draw from a single video clip dont you think? When people are this certain about their assumptions and conclusion, It makes me wounder how well they have considdered the argument...
Would you kill the man?
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Jonatan
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
From what i am hearing about this video it seems like a classic example of the 'shoot anything that moves' psychology instilled by Generals to their G.I.s - just look at how they shot at us - this is the same with the Israelis - there is no mercy - as long as they kill as many people they can compete with the running tallies of their mates.
If the Israelis followed this policy I can assure you the death toll in the west bank and Gaza would be several magnitudes higher.
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onearmedscissor
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#65
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#65
(Original post by MattG)
have you been near a truck that has been blown up? have you been shot at by a 30mm cannon?! this guy has at least taken a few bullets. hes alive, down, wounded. anything he does in that condition isnt going to jepodise the lives of the helicopter crew.
Sorry, but you don't take chances in war, that is unless you'd prefer to die and in the process endanger your comrades.
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onearmedscissor
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#66
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#66
(Original post by 2776 2)
Would you kill the man?
If I was in that chopper and saw enemy movement on the ground, I'd shoot to kill, its as simple as that.
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MattG
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Jonatan)
Also, did you read the post above the link?

eh? sry being stupid here what link? the link from the original source (airsoft forums)



This is exactly my point. You saw the situation from one angle, had plenty of tiem to watch and analyze it and you knew what was about to happen. The pilots had a very short time to make a decision without any prior knowledge under stressed conditions and a partially obstructed field of view (The field of view in a combat helicopter is always partially obstructed by the helictopter itself).
they shot the man before the truck he was trying to get too (most likely for cover, possibly for a weapon) the priority should have been the truck (to destroy whatever weapon he was getting too) not the man himself.

you can see it on the video, the gunner aims for the truck first, then is told to shoot the man, the guy questions his decision slightly (shoot him?)
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Jonatan
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#68
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#68
(Original post by 2776 2)
Would you kill the man?
Taking into considderation I am not aware of what it was like sitting in that helicopter, that I only have limited knowledge about the situation the only honest answer I can give you will be "I dont know!" All I can tell you is that if I was sent to serve in a military invation liketh eone in Iraq I would be damn nervous not knowing if Id come home alive or not...
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Sire
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#69
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#69
(Original post by onearmedscissor)
If I was in that chopper and saw enemy movement on the ground, I'd shoot to kill, its as simple as that.
Then you would be one of the people who shouldn't have been allowed to put on the uniform. Yet court martialled all the same. These men were of no threat, all they had to do was destroy the equipment.
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Kurdt Morello
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Jonatan)
If the Israelis followed this policy I can assure you the death toll in the west bank and Gaza would be several magnitudes higher.
generally they do - lest we forget the reported massacre in Ramallah - and anyway they even killed a Briton who was trying to save kids from israeli soldiers - 12 year old kids are taken on by helicopter gunships for chucking stones at a building - has the world gone mad? Similarly in Iraq the Americans continue to kill innocents - they must have killed 10s of thousands with the bombing raids alone.

Consider this, israel is now the only power in the middle east with a nuclear weapons programme and are supported in this by the US. Isnt it inevitable that there is such resentment in the middle-east from the neighbouring muslim countries that are probably wary of them?
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MattG
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Jonatan)
If the Israelis followed this policy I can assure you the death toll in the west bank and Gaza would be several magnitudes higher.
if they didn't follow it then the bristish photographer tom hurndall might be alive today

http://www.tomhurndall.co.uk/
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Dickie
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#72
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#72
(Original post by MattG)
they shot the man before the truck he was trying to get too (most likely for cover, possibly for a weapon) the priority should have been the truck (to destroy whatever weapon he was getting too) not the man himself.

you can see it on the video, the gunner aims for the truck first, then is told to shoot the man, the guy questions his decision slightly (shoot him?)
oh, I see that you have much more military experience than the guys in the chopper, who are probably officers. Obviously you must know better than them.
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Kurdt Morello
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#73
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#73
(Original post by MattG)
if they didn't follow it then the bristish photographer tom hurndall might be alive today

http://www.tomhurndall.co.uk/
thank god someone took the time to notice this - the family want to take the israeli army to court for this because apparently the soldier who shot him aimed and killed him under orders when he posed no threat and was not a legitimate target- unless israel dont want the world to know the truth about their attitude to the Palestinians
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onearmedscissor
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Sire)
Then you would be one of the people who shouldn't have been allowed to put on the uniform. Yet court martialled all the same. These men were of no threat, all they had to do was destroy the equipment.
My father was in the paratroopers, and I've heard most of the stories. I can't quite believe some of the **** you're coming out with, your theories work here on a forum when you're sitting at home safe. I'm pretty sure after serving you'd ****sure have a different opinion on all of this you holier than now retard.
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Sire
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#75
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#75
(Original post by Dickie)
oh, I see that you have much more military experience than the guys in the chopper, who are probably officers. Obviously you must know better than them.
The men in the chopper are most likely a corporal, or perhaps a sergeant and two privates. Depending on which unit they belong to of course. As for experience, forget that, talk about morals first. Then come to the experience that a wounded man is of very little threat, a wounded man without a weapon isn't worth pointing a weapon at. Do you understand this at all?
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Jonatan
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
generally they do - lest we forget the reported massacre in Ramallah - and anyway they even killed a Briton who was trying to save kids from israeli soldiers - 12 year old kids are taken on by helicopter gunships for chucking stones at a building - has the world gone mad? Similarly in Iraq the Americans continue to kill innocents - they must have killed 10s of thousands with the bombing raids alone.

Consider this, israel is now the only power in the middle east with a nuclear weapons programme and are supported in this by the US. Isnt it inevitable that there is such resentment in the middle-east from the neighbouring muslim countries that are probably wary of them?
Oh yes oh yes, the old usual. MAssacre in Ramallah? Like the one in Jenin were we were told it was close to thousand innocent killed in massgraves and it turned out to be about 23 who died in crossfire between teh military and the militants... Also Israel has recently charged one of their soldiers for exactly this type of behaviour. They are in no way encouraging this sort of behaviour. This is quite the opposite to what happens in the palestinian areas. Arafat actively encourage terrorists to go blow themselves up in restaurantsand busses killing as many civilians as possible. Of course, these are Jews getting killed so then we dont care about it. We much rather want to criticise the Jews for defending themselves...
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Kurdt Morello
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
thank god someone took the time to notice this - the family want to take the israeli army to court for this because apparently the soldier who shot him aimed and killed him under orders when he posed no threat and was not a legitimate target- unless israel dont want the world to know the truth about their attitude to the Palestinians
Sorry put the israeli army on trial for their son's murder
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GH
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Jonatan)
Oh yes oh yes, the old usual. MAssacre in Ramallah? Like the one in Jenin were we were told it was close to thousand innocent killed in massgraves and it turned out to be about 23 who died in crossfire between teh military and the militants... Also Israel has recently charged one of their soldiers for exactly this type of behaviour. They are in no way encouraging this sort of behaviour. This is quite the opposite to what happens in the palestinian areas. Arafat actively encourage terrorists to go blow themselves up in restaurantsand busses killing as many civilians as possible. Of course, these are Jews getting killed so then we dont care about it. We much rather want to criticise the Jews for defending themselves...
Are you Jewish? Just a question.
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MattG
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Dickie)
oh, I see that you have much more military experience than the guys in the chopper, who are probably officers. Obviously you must know better than them.
i'm not saying that, these guys have been trained relentlessly t do their job well but from my judgement that course of action would have been more effective. watch and listen to the chatter, the gunner points out "hes wounded" blowing up the jeep thing he was crawling too would have left him with nowhere to go with no possibility of gaining a weapon to threaten the crew. you can argue that in that environment a judgement had to be made, yes but the fact the gunner targetted the jeep first and said hes wounded says to me that he had considered this option as well.
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Jonatan
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Sire)
The men in the chopper are most likely a corporal, or perhaps a sergeant and two privates. Depending on which unit they belong to of course. As for experience, forget that, talk about morals first. Then come to the experience that a wounded man is of very little threat, a wounded man without a weapon isn't worth pointing a weapon at. Do you understand this at all?
Do you understand that the helicopter pilots did not see that video in advance bfore they made a decision? The question is not whether the man was a threat or not, the question is whether the pilots knew he was a wounded harmless man. He could equally well have been a soldier equiped with an RPG launcher.
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