for all you pro war people out there: Watch

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onearmedscissor
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Sire)
The men in the chopper are most likely a corporal, or perhaps a sergeant and two privates. Depending on which unit they belong to of course. As for experience, forget that, talk about morals first. Then come to the experience that a wounded man is of very little threat, a wounded man without a weapon isn't worth pointing a weapon at. Do you understand this at all?
"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near." - Sun Tzu


Btw, it looked to me like that recording was at night.... again I ****ing emphasize my point on NOT TAKING ANY CHANCES.
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Dickie
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Sire)
The men in the chopper are most likely a corporal, or perhaps a sergeant and two privates. Depending on which unit they belong to of course. As for experience, forget that, talk about morals first. Then come to the experience that a wounded man is of very little threat, a wounded man without a weapon isn't worth pointing a weapon at. Do you understand this at all?
I doubt they were cpl, and no way privates

I know in the British Army pilots are generally Leiutenants, and I presume that this is the way it works in the american army.

Sergeants, at the least.
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Sire
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#83
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#83
(Original post by onearmedscissor)
My father was in the paratroopers, and I've heard most of the stories. I can't quite believe some of the **** you're coming out with, your theories work here on a forum when you're sitting at home safe. I'm pretty sure after serving you'd ****sure have a different opinion on all of this you holier than now retard.
My father did his time also. My opinion still wouldn't change. Stuff as shown in that clip simply isn't allowed. Under no circumstances.
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Sire
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Dickie)
I doubt they were cpl, and no way privates

I know in the British Army pilots are generally Leiutenants, and I presume that this is the way it works in the american army.

Sergeants, at the least.
It isn't the way it works in the American Army. Officers don't actually fly choppers generally, but I wasn't talking of the pilot. The pilot was a warrant officer, or indeed senior sergeant minimum.
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MattG
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Jonatan)
Do you understand that the helicopter pilots did not see that video in advance bfore they made a decision? The question is not whether the man was a threat or not, the question is whether the pilots knew he was a wounded harmless man. He could equally well have been a soldier equiped with an RPG launcher.
but he isnt, u would see an rpg v clearly.
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Kurdt Morello
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#86
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#86
(Original post by Jonatan)
Oh yes oh yes, the old usual. MAssacre in Ramallah? Like the one in Jenin were we were told it was close to thousand innocent killed in massgraves and it turned out to be about 23 who died in crossfire between teh military and the militants... Also Israel has recently charged one of their soldiers for exactly this type of behaviour. They are in no way encouraging this sort of behaviour. This is quite the opposite to what happens in the palestinian areas. Arafat actively encourage terrorists to go blow themselves up in restaurantsand busses killing as many civilians as possible. Of course, these are Jews getting killed so then we dont care about it. We much rather want to criticise the Jews for defending themselves...
No i dont criticise the jews for wanting to defend themselves but i do criticise their govt. for deliberately allowing people to move into settlements on Palestinian land - i also criticise the army for heavy-handedness - these raids that they carry out are virtual persecution because there are many reported cases of the wrong people being questioned beaten and tortured (the last two i dont agree with). and i meant jenin rather than ramallah in the last post - thank u for bringing up official figures which are highly questionable - especially when the army didnt allow ambulances to go into the ghetto and treat the wounded and dying - which is a contravention of their basic human rights
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Jonatan
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#87
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#87
(Original post by 2776 2)
Are you Jewish? Just a question.
I am not Jewish but I do have Jewish relatives. Just to mention it I think Sharon is a big moron and the setlement policy is all a piece of crap. I am not one of those religious fanatics who support Israel just because it is a Jewish state. All Im saying is that Israel get a lots of criticism for incidents which do not even compare to the sort of business the PLO get away with without anyone lifting a finger.
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onearmedscissor
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Sire)
My father did his time also. My opinion still wouldn't change. Stuff as shown in that clip simply isn't allowed. Under no circumstances.
LOL!

In war there's no time for this court marshial ****, there's a million incidents that are simply not allowed. Do you think people give two ****s that some random enemy is killed? From his comrades he'll recieve a salute, one less to worry about. There's many many ****ed up things happening in the world... fair enough, the fact that the people in the chopper are getting RESULTS as far as the generals are concerned is "don't ask, don't tell".
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Sire
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#89
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#89
(Original post by onearmedscissor)
"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near." - Sun Tzu


Btw, it looked to me like that recording was at night.... again I ****ing emphasize my point on NOT TAKING ANY CHANCES.
Then a hasty retreat would be the answer after destroying the equipment and putting the enemy men out of action. Not brutally finishing off a wounded now non-combatant.
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Kurdt Morello
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#90
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#90
my grandfather served in the British Army Forces in Africa during world war II against Rommel - he thinks the actions of the americans have been disgusting and barbaric
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MattG
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#91
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#91
(Original post by onearmedscissor)
LOL!

In war there's no time for this court marshial ****, there's a million incidents that are simply not allowed. Do you think people give two ****s that some random enemy is killed? From his comrades he'll recieve a salute, one less to worry about. There's many many ****ed up things happening in the world... fair enough, the fact that the people in the chopper are getting RESULTS as far as the generals are concerned is "don't ask, don't tell".
there is more to war than just killing, its achieving objectives. the objective was to end the threat to the american crew. if they had blown the jeep up and not killed the man the threat would have been over, you can see it for yourself. there is no need to kill a wounded man
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Jonatan
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#92
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#92
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
especially when the army didnt allow ambulances to go into the ghetto and treat the wounded and dying - which is a contravention of their basic human rights
The ISraely army did treat wounded themselves with their military ambulance personell (Yes, go ahead and say this is just propaganda), furthermore it is a fact that palestinian militants did use ambulances to smuggle weapons and explosives and also that the surrounding world were cortisizing the IDF for every single journalist or healthcare worker who got hurt even if they practiaclly walked into the crossfire themselves. My main point is we were told there were close to thousands dead whereas the UN later conlcuded it was between 20 and 30 total among who there were mostly Israeli soldiers and palestinian militants. These are not Israeli statements they are from teh UN. If the figures were that questionable is it not a bit strange the UN did not mention this in the report ?
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Dickie
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#93
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#93
(Original post by MattG)
there is more to war than just killing, its achieving objectives. the objective was to end the threat to the american crew. if they had blown the jeep up and not killed the man the threat would have been over, you can see it for yourself. there is no need to kill a wounded man
that man could have recovered and gone on to kill american soldiers. Why take the risk?
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Sire
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#94
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#94
(Original post by onearmedscissor)
LOL!

In war there's no time for this court marshial ****, there's a million incidents that are simply not allowed. Do you think people give two ****s that some random enemy is killed? From his comrades he'll recieve a salute, one less to worry about. There's many many ****ed up things happening in the world... fair enough, the fact that the people in the chopper are getting RESULTS as far as the generals are concerned is "don't ask, don't tell".
So basically enjoying the killing? tsk tsk. You should know that the best results have always been attained through more respectable means of engagement.
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onearmedscissor
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#95
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#95
(Original post by Sire)
Then a hasty retreat would be the answer after destroying the equipment and putting the enemy men out of action. Not brutally finishing off a wounded now non-combatant.
Easy for you to say again, being given time to analyse and coherently think about the situation. These guys are given nothing to go on... they fly in and about 10 seconds need to fly out after successfully completing their mission objectives. No enemy survivors? No war casualties? Good job soldier.

Realise how this works please instead of posting morals and beliefs, I'm dealing with this realistically at face value. These guys have to make decisions under breakneck speeds and pressure.
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GH
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#96
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#96
(Original post by onearmedscissor)
LOL!

In war there's no time for this court marshial ****, there's a million incidents that are simply not allowed. Do you think people give two ****s that some random enemy is killed? From his comrades he'll recieve a salute, one less to worry about. There's many many ****ed up things happening in the world... fair enough, the fact that the people in the chopper are getting RESULTS as far as the generals are concerned is "don't ask, don't tell".
Yes, so why are we prosecuting war crimes? Against war criminals? The Americans seemed to be keen on it after 2nd WW.
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Sire
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#97
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#97
(Original post by Dickie)
that man could have recovered and gone on to kill american soldiers. Why take the risk?
because that is what you feel you would DESERVE if you were in that mans position.
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MattG
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#98
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#98
(Original post by Dickie)
that man could have recovered and gone on to kill american soldiers. Why take the risk?
what when he could have been picked up by american troops and arrested and interogated?
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onearmedscissor
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Sire)
So basically enjoying the killing? tsk tsk. You should know that the best results have always been attained through more respectable means of engagement.
Again, I'm not saying anything about enjoying anything to do with war, as it's wrong. It boils down to you or them, take no chances. Come home safe to your loved ones.

I sure know which option I'd take, **** yeah I wouldn't enjoy it and it's likely that I'll be mentally scarred, but at least I'll have lived and that my loved ones can help me get through harsh times.
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Dickie
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#100
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#100
(Original post by MattG)
what when he could have been picked up by american troops and arrested and interogated?
do you know how far away infantry were from these particular iraqis?
Just because a chopper could get there doesnt mean infantry could, or would to pick up one soldier.
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