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Dickie
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#121
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#121
(Original post by 2776 2)
Hey, you neutralised the threat, take the man in, and maybe you'll torture him enough for more information than just killing him.
HOW were they supposed to capture the man?!
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onearmedscissor
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#122
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#122
(Original post by kyuuki)
i like this guy,

war is hell people and it will never be anything else,

as stated, when that first bullet goes past your head, politics and all that **** just goes out the window, its all about the man standing next to you.
Precisely what I'm talking about, you enter a whole different world.
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Jonatan
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#123
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#123
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
By the way the Israeli land is terrorism but Palestinian land where the settlements impinge upon it is freedom fighting - Dictionary Defined - i should hope
BULL****! The settlers are civilians. Setting of five kilos of amonium nitrate at a restaurant is not freedom fighting its a deliberate targeting of unarmed innocent people. If the Israely givernment has done an error in letting these people live there it does not give you the right to go torture the settlers to death.
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Kurdt Morello
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#124
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#124
(Original post by Jonatan)
This is the sort of sick bull**** Im talking about. I do not agree with the setlements, and they may be illegal. BUT THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY ATACKING CIVILIANS. The settlers are not military soldier, they are people living their lives there. There is a difference between crime and crime. If I steal yoru wallet , that does not give you the right to cut my head of with a blunt knife. Not even in principle. Furthemore, these setlements are not illegal in the principal matter. There is a resolution passed in teh general assembly, yes but general assembly resolutions are not legally binding. Furthemore, even if they are to be considdered illegal (which I can understand) the violation would still be off the Israeli givernment, not the residents in the setlements. The idea that these setlements in any way ustify suecide bombings is complete and utter bull****. Targeting civilians is, regardless if its a war or not, a direct violation of international law and is considdered terrorism. When it comes to the IDF everyone agree upon this, but when palestinians does so, the actions are , at least partially, justified as freedom fight. This is just sick. The generalisation that killing jewish civilians is a lawfull mean of fighting because the Israeli goivernment has done something is nothing but antisemitism.
excuse me Mr Melodramatic - read my post properly and wind ur neck in - i disagree with suicide bombings and i didnt say that they were justifiable - i asked u to consider why the Palestinians thought it was justifiable - u sir are a twit - u are too emotional and i think it colours ur judgement and makes u write rhetoric and crap which isnt even relevant to the post i wrote - dont be so selective in ur reading because ur quote is out of context - and anyway to some people it is freedom fighting when the settlements are on Palestinian land - which the US condemn and Sharon has promised to put an end to in response to criticism. Shut up and read others' comments - and anyway anti-semitism isnt just against jews - it is against the Semite people which include arabs and palestinians
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MattG
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#125
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#125
(Original post by onearmedscissor)
Precisely what I'm talking about, you enter a whole different world.
these guys are trained. they need to eb able to evaluate effectively what constitutes a risk, lives are at stake, the injuried man wasnt a risk (imho)

goodnight ppl *yawn*
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GH
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#126
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#126
(Original post by Dickie)
HOW were they supposed to capture the man?!
Think outside the box. You want info, you have person. What do you do? Send either a team in, or do it yourself. Not very hard with a helicopter at your disposal. Torture him till he starts speaking, then finish him off to destroy evidence.
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onearmedscissor
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#127
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#127
(Original post by 2776 2)
Hey, you neutralised the threat, take the man in, and maybe you'll torture him enough for more information than just killing him.
The threat is never neutralised when you're on enemy grounds, that guy could have a radio and be calling for backup, he could also be armed.

Though yes, extracting information can be a savage deal... but acceptable if you think of matters on a larger scale. If butchering one man can save lives, I'm all for it... sad but true. Since war is so vast simple utilitarian theories can actually help with decisions.
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Kurdt Morello
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#128
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#128
(Original post by Jonatan)
BULL****! The settlers are civilians. Setting of five kilos of amonium nitrate at a restaurant is not freedom fighting its a deliberate targeting of unarmed innocent people. If the Israely givernment has done an error in letting these people live there it does not give you the right to go torture the settlers to death.
again jonatan u are showing how stupid u are - dont point out facts to me that i am aware of - the fact of the matter is that the govt. letting the people settle there justifies killing them with suicide bombs IN THE EYES OF THE PALESTINIANS - not in MY EYES. I am supplying u with a modus-operandi and u are supplying me with monumentous rhetoric and victriole
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Vienna
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#129
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#129
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
generally they do - lest we forget the reported massacre in Ramallah - and anyway they even killed a Briton who was trying to save kids from israeli soldiers - 12 year old kids are taken on by helicopter gunships for chucking stones at a building - has the world gone mad? Similarly in Iraq the Americans continue to kill innocents - they must have killed 10s of thousands with the bombing raids alone.
a tragic incident. but when you mingle with palestinians throwing stones and attacking israel military posts there will be an element of risk.
you seem to think that the young men who make up the IDF do so for fun. they constantly live in fear for the next suicide bomber who will come to pass through their checkpoint. like yesterday, where, instead of following procedure, an Israeli soldier showed compassion to a mother crying that her metal chest implant could not pass through the metal detector. he took her aside for a body search and then she blew him up.
this situation is incredibly difficult to judge.

no. the number of civilian casualties was estimated to be around 3-5000.

Consider this, israel is now the only power in the middle east with a nuclear weapons programme and are supported in this by the US. Isnt it inevitable that there is such resentment in the middle-east from the neighbouring muslim countries that are probably wary of them?
why? Israel has expressed its wish to its own land as agreed by a UN mandate. it is its surrounding Arab neighbours who have openly expressed their desire to wipe the Jews from the face of the planet. It is the backing of the US and their steadfast principle that a country has a right to exist that keeps the Israeli people in any kind of existance.
America trusts Israel because they respect basic democratic principles, in the same way, they do not demand India to disarm.

Consider this, millions of EU taxpayers money goes directly to Palestinian terrorists. what is the difference between ur idea of a pro-Israeli US and a pro-Palestinian Europe? Europe is wrong.
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onearmedscissor
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#130
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#130
(Original post by MattG)
these guys are trained. they need to eb able to evaluate effectively what constitutes a risk, lives are at stake, the injuried man wasnt a risk (imho)

goodnight ppl *yawn*
Trained... to kill. If a strike team needs to neutralise weapons convoys, I'm pretty sure in most cases there's no enemy survivors. I'm also pretty sure that the generals are quite happy with that. The injured man was alive, albeit injured, he's still a potential risk.
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GH
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#131
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#131
(Original post by onearmedscissor)
The threat is never neutralised when you're on enemy grounds, that guy could have a radio and be calling for backup, he could also be armed.

Though yes, extracting information can be a savage deal... but acceptable if you think of matters on a larger scale. If butchering one man can save lives, I'm all for it... sad but true. Since war is so vast simple utilitarian theories can actually help with decisions.
I am for torturing for information. Nothing in my previous statement suggests otherwise.

Sure about the enemy grouds etc, but using a radio is hardly going to get armed people out in time to save him. He might be armed, but so will be the Americans, a few tranquilizers in him should do the trick.

Take the risk, and get the goods. Don't take the risk, and you will never break them.
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Dickie
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#132
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#132
(Original post by 2776 2)
Think outside the box. You want info, you have person. What do you do? Send either a team in, or do it yourself. Not very hard with a helicopter at your disposal. Torture him till he starts speaking, then finish him off to destroy evidence.
they were meant to land a helecopter in enemy territory? thats sensible.

So you disagree that they killed him, and would rather they landed, risked their lives, probably get shot at and end up killling him anyway?
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Kurdt Morello
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#133
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#133
according to a programme tonight - inventions that changed the world - Jeremy Clarkson - the British Army estimates 30 casualties to take a well defended house in suburbia - but with a man lying under a truck there is no element of surprise or hidden things - this is an unarmed man being murdered - pure and simple - he wasnt givent the chance to surrender
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Jonatan
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#134
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#134
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
excuse me Mr Melodramatic - read my post properly and wind ur neck in - i disagree with suicide bombings and i didnt say that they were justifiable - i asked u to consider why the Palestinians thought it was justifiable - u sir are a twit - u are too emotional and i think it colours ur judgement and makes u write rhetoric and crap which isnt even relevant to the post i wrote - dont be so selective in ur reading because ur quote is out of context - and anyway to some people it is freedom fighting when the settlements are on Palestinian land - which the US condemn and Sharon has promised to put an end to in response to criticism. Shut up and read others' comments - and anyway anti-semitism isnt just against jews - it is against the Semite people which include arabs and palestinians
First of all, you did quiet explicitly say its freedom fighting when it occurs on palestinian land, which is wrong. Second the word antisemitism may come from teh construction anti - semite, but the meaning of the word is not what you want it to be. I know very well what antisemitism means, and i have heard people comming up with this bull**** that antisemitism is also anti-arab views, which is not the case. There is a difference between teh origin of a word and its meaing. Go check a dictionary if you do not beleive me. Finally, not too long ago two BRITISH residents performed suecide bombings in Israel. Religious fanaticism is the reason ebhind, not poverty.
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onearmedscissor
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#135
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#135
(Original post by 2776 2)
I am for torturing for information. Nothing in my previous statement suggests otherwise.

Sure about the enemy grouds etc, but using a radio is hardly going to get armed people out in time to save him. He might be armed, but so will be the Americans, a few tranquilizers in him should do the trick.

Take the risk, and get the goods. Don't take the risk, and you will never break them.
Dude, the guys just been ****ing decimated with apache missiles... he won't survive the journey back to base. What he would survive though, was informing nearby friendlies... there's always protection nearby for weapons conveys, they're the tide turner of battles.
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Vienna
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#136
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#136
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
and anyway anti-semitism isnt just against jews - it is against the Semite people which include arabs and palestinians
anti-Semitism is now commonly known as being specifically anti-Jewish.
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Bhaal85
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#137
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#137
Just watched the video. How on earth can people say they opened fire on innocent civilians, all we saw was a thirty second clip of three people getting shot down, we have no evidence to suggest that they where innocent nor hostile, its funny how so many people came to the agreement that those people where innocent.
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onearmedscissor
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#138
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#138
(Original post by Dickie)
they were meant to land a helecopter in enemy territory? thats sensible.

So you disagree that they killed him, and would rather they landed, risked their lives, probably get shot at and end up killling him anyway?
I've already said this..
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GH
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#139
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#139
(Original post by Dickie)
they were meant to land a helecopter in enemy territory? thats sensible.

So you disagree that they killed him, and would rather they landed, risked their lives, probably get shot at and end up killling him anyway?
Landing to get a source of information is useful. Considering there is no other visible enemy about. So acceptable risk. Greater good.
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onearmedscissor
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#140
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#140
(Original post by 2776 2)
Landing to get a source of information is useful. Considering there is no other visible enemy about. So acceptable risk. Greater good.
Read my post.
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