Self Defence or Murder? Watch

This discussion is closed.
Sire
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 15 years ago
#1
When does self defence become murder?
0
GH
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#2
Report 15 years ago
#2
On the back. Outside the house.
0
Sire
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#3
Report Thread starter 15 years ago
#3
(Original post by 2776 2)
On the back. Outside the house.
Do you mean to say that if someone is attacking you outside your front door, you should try to lure them inside? I do like the way people have immediately assumed that I mean self defence in regard to the home. Interesting
0
GH
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#4
Report 15 years ago
#4
(Original post by Sire)
Do you mean to say that if someone is attacking you outside your front door, you should try to lure them inside? I do like the way people have immediately assumed that I mean self defence in regard to the home. Interesting
No, in the UK, a farmer was arrested for manslaughter because he shot a burglar. It was discovered later that he was shot in the back, and outside the house i.e. thus not causing harm per se. Totally sympatheise with the farmer, as int eh rural regions it takes upto 2 hours for a police to get there and burglars use that fact.
0
cobra
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#5
Report 15 years ago
#5
If you intend to kill the person not just restrain them from hurting you
0
Waya
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#6
Report 15 years ago
#6
(Original post by Sire)
When does self defence become murder?
Self defense can be classified as murder in cases where say an abused girlfreind who feels no other option is available decides to take matters in her own hands and either kills the abuser herself or hires someone to do it for her. Basically it is a case of taking the law into ones own hands and doing away with the threat when they are not in any imediate danger.
0
GH
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#7
Report 15 years ago
#7
(Original post by Waya)
Self defense can be classified as murder in cases where say an abused girlfreind who feels no other option is available decides to take matters in her own hands and either kills the abuser herself or hires someone to do it for her. Basically it is a case of taking the law into ones own hands and doing away with the threat when they are not in any imediate danger.
Hiring someone to kill someone else is murder.
0
Kurdt Morello
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#8
Report 15 years ago
#8
(Original post by Waya)
Self defense can be classified as murder in cases where say an abused girlfreind who feels no other option is available decides to take matters in her own hands and either kills the abuser herself or hires someone to do it for her. Basically it is a case of taking the law into ones own hands and doing away with the threat when they are not in any imediate danger.
Abused wife syndrome? Self-defence is only provable when u are under genuine physical threat which also has to proven
0
Waya
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#9
Report 15 years ago
#9
(Original post by Kurdt Morello)
Abused wife syndrome? Self-defence is only provable when u are under genuine physical threat which also has to proven
Right. The question however was when does self defense become murder. What I said is just an example of that. The person doing so beleives they are doing so as a means of self defense, however it is murder.
0
_EMMA_
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#10
Report 15 years ago
#10
someone one's said that self defence become murder when you shoot/stab/hit or whatever you did more than one time.
the first is a reflex, self defence and the following you are aware of what you are doing. this doesn't apply for all cases though.
0
Xenon
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#11
Report 15 years ago
#11
Killing with intention is murder.
0
Waya
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#12
Report 15 years ago
#12
(Original post by _EMMA_)
someone one's said that self defence become murder when you shoot/stab/hit or whatever you did more than one time.
the first is a reflex, self defence and the following you are aware of what you are doing. this doesn't apply for all cases though.
There you go, a much better example.


Yes killing with intention is murder, i'm not saying it isn't. I was just providing an example of self defense turning into murder.
0
Bhaal85
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#13
Report 15 years ago
#13
(Original post by Sire)
Do you mean to say that if someone is attacking you outside your front door, you should try to lure them inside? I do like the way people have immediately assumed that I mean self defence in regard to the home. Interesting
Shoot them, then drag their bodies upstairs.
0
Sire
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#14
Report Thread starter 15 years ago
#14
(Original post by Bhaal85)
Shoot them, then drag their bodies upstairs.
I like that idea, solves all problems
0
viviki
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#15
Report 15 years ago
#15
You guys are a bloodthirsty lot tonight. If someone came int my house or were violent towards me I would definitely bash them with something to defend myself if necessary, I would try not to kill them though I dont want to go to prison.
0
Kurdt Morello
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#16
Report 15 years ago
#16
(Original post by Waya)
Right. The question however was when does self defense become murder. What I said is just an example of that. The person doing so beleives they are doing so as a means of self defense, however it is murder.
I will say that there are mitigating circumstances for the reflex theory when the person feels threatened enough that he/she wants to make sure their attacker isnt capable of hurting them = this is especially the case for a timid person
0
tagzt
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#17
Report 15 years ago
#17
(Original post by Sire)
When does self defence become murder?
your question makes no sense, if you are referring to the legal term of "self defence" then it never becomes murder because a succesful plea of self defence results in a complete acquittal from a murder charge. i think what you mean to say is when will a plea of self defence not be sucessful in relation to a murder charge.

determing self defence is a two part test:

1. Did the defendant believe the circumstances were such that there was an imminent threat of serious harm or death. This is a subjective question.

2. Did the defendant use reasonable force, proportional to the threat he thought he was facing. This is an objective question.

So lets say you are walking a long the street and someone grabs you, if you then stab them you have no case for self defence. if however pull out a knife first and then you stab them, youre response is proportional and you have a case.
0
Bhaal85
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#18
Report 15 years ago
#18
1 a : the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments b : JUDGE c : the administration of law; especially : the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity

Under Texas Penal Code Section 9:

Definitions:

Force: Physical power or coercion exerted against a person or thing.

Deadly force: Force intended or known to be capable of causing serious injury or death.

Reasonable and necessary force: The minimum amount of lawful aggression sufficient for self protection or protection of a third person.


Section 9.31, Self-defense: You can use force when and to the degree you believe it is immediately necessary to protect yourself against the use of unlawful force. Justifies force, not deadly force.

Limitsse of force is not justified in many situations.

For verbal provocationse of force is not justified in response to verbal provocation alone.

If you consent to the exact force used:

If you provoke the use of unlawful force:

To resist arrest: You can only resist unlawful force

Unless: Before you offer any resistance the officer uses greater force than necessary and your resistance is immediately necessary for protection.


In a planned argument: If you “sought an explanation from or a discussion with the other person” concerning differences and illegally carry a handgun.


Section 9.32, Defense of a person: You are justified in using deadly force if:

You can use force: Force is justified under Section 9.31.

You can’t retreat: A reasonable person would not have retreated.

Except: Retreat is not necessary if the other person is using force and is unlawfully entering your habitation


Deadly force is immediately necessary: “When and to the degree” the deadly force is necessary to protect against the use of unlawful deadly force, or prevent the imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.


Section 9.33, Defense of a third person: Justified if the third person is in danger that would justify self defense and you believe it is immediately necessary to intervene. If they can use force, you can use force. If they can use deadly force, you can use deadly force.

Section 9.41, Protection of your property: Use of force, not deadly force.

Protecting property: You can use force to protect your land or tangible moveable property if immediately necessary to prevent trespass or interference with the property.

Recovering property: You can use force when immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if in hot pursuit and the other person used force, threat, or fraud and has no claim on the property.


Section 9.42, Deadly force to protect property: You can use deadly force if:

Force is justified: You would be justified in using force under Section 9.41.

It is immediately necessary to: Prevent the commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime, or prevent someone from escaping with property after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime.

If property cannot be recovered: The property cannot be protected or recovered any other way, and use of force would cause substantial risk of death or serious injury


Section 9.43, Protection of third person’s property: Force or deadly force is justified as if protecting your own property, and force is necessary to prevent theft or criminal mischief or the third person has requested protection, you have a legal duty to protect the property, or the third person is a relative.

Section 9.05, Reckless injury of an innocent third person: You are not justified in recklessly killing or injuring an innocent third person, even if you are justified in using deadly force during the incident.

Section 9.06, Civil remedies: Justification under Chapter 9 does not affect civil lawsuits.

Self-defense is about protecting persons or property from direct immediate assault by criminals, using the minimum force necessary. What you don’t see in the law is any process including:
the maintenance or administration of what is just
the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims
the assignment of merited rewards or punishments
the administration of law
the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity
Self-defense is not a vigilante activity.
0
X
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Brexit: Given the chance now, would you vote leave or remain?

Remain (879)
79.84%
Leave (222)
20.16%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed