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Homersexuality and Choice watch

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    So infertility is unnatural? Contraception is wrong?

    It's natural for gay people to be attracted to members of the same sex, and enjoy sexual activities with the same sex. Because it happens, naturally, in nature. I don't want to walk down this path; but the parrelell is there. Would you count disabled people without the apbility to procreate due to their disability unnatural?

    Even if it wasn't natural, which it has been proven time and time again, and an evolutionary benefit to homosexuality shown, so what? Things that aren't natural aren't nessecarily wrong.
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    :emo:
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    (Original post by yoyo462001)
    Good post.
    Why thank you, and nice to see someone else that appreciates Code Geass.
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    I'm guessing if it is genetic that two straight people can pass on the gene and have a gay child, oh my gosh! In exactly the same way as a gay man and woman could have a child that turns out to be straight! Therefore it is not always a choice because it doesn't have to be gay people that pass on the gene?.
    I don't know for sure if it is genetic, i don't care or want to argue about that. But i do think although it may be a choice for some, for most people it is not a choice, i definately didn't choose to be! I'd rather be straight so that i can hold hands with my partner in the street without wondering if we will get shouted at and such which i've had a few times.
    Straight people do not decide 'oh i think i would like to be hetro' it just comes to them naturally like instinct or something, surely it's the same for homosexuals only the other way round?
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    Surely the OP is complete bunkum because a gene can be dormant anyway, meaning it may not only be carried in those displaying homosexual or bisexual tastes.

    As for people saying homosexuality is a choice fetish, I'm not sure I'd agree. Most fetishes are linked to an underlying psychological state which is not of the persons direct choice. Much like sado-masochism is related to the anti-social personality disorder (in a general sense). Added to this level of individual depth, culture can play as much of a role as individual will does too.

    You always get increases in depravity and perversions when a culture is in decline, Rome being the ever present example. That's what we see today with the induced collapse of the family structure, more and more people crammed into cities, a blatant embracement of materialist philosophy and generally ego-centric behaviour patterns built on indulgence and reward.

    We are weak mewling shadows of what our species could potentially be.
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    I love this thread it's epic, so are some of the witty replies :yep:
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    (Original post by turn and fall)
    Your first argument is true in the short run. In the long run by the law of large numbers the gay gene would be eliminated. Evolution does take a long time.

    This completely contradicts the current situation where more people are officially gay than ever before.

    Genes must have nothing to do with being gay.
    Multiple genes? Genes that are physically linked to evolutionary advantageous genes (genetic hitch-hiking it's called)? Genes that are advantageous in some individuals but cause homosexuality in others? Gene-environment interactions? Epigenetics?
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    (Original post by Yawn11)
    People that are still rinsing the 'homer' jokes :lolwut:

    Anyway, I agree it's a choice. I look it at it like a nasty fetish. Some guys like to BBW chicks, some like bondage and pain, homosexuality is just like that, but the worst since its with another man.

    There is nothing coded in your genes that should make you attracted to the same sex. Your sexual organs are orientated to recieve gratification from the opposite sex.

    Which is why you have homosexuals that act feminine or dress up as woman, or become transvestites AND at the same time other homosexuals are attracted to this?? Why not just get a real female? fetish.

    Some Lesbians tend to be butch or tomboy-ish. PLUS a great amount use strap-on's for sex?? Why not a get a real penis?? fetish.

    Homosexuality is BULLSHlT. It's just because in this modern day and age we've learnt to accept their fetish, which is why there is a large population of homosexuals in comparison to the amount there were in the past.

    Meh, who cares, more pusssy for us lads.
    It makes me sad that someone can enter a scientific topic and draw so many conclusions with literally zero evidence. How can you honestly feel comfortable making a cast iron statement that requires you to have a full knowledge of our entire genetics? If you're really BULLSHlTTING us, I would go and claim a Nobel prize.

    Incidentally, our sexual organs have, through evolution, ended up giving us gratification through heterosexual sex. But it's not a design by some creator and so is not perfect. If evolution had completely weeded out every gene that is counter-productive to us reproducing, people would not be genetically infertile; people would not be born with genetic diseases or deformations which either make it impossible for them to have sex or which kill them before puberty; and people would not be born ugly. What's more, the gay gene could lay dormant and so skip many generations, it could come in a package with genes which make you a good reproducer, etc.

    You also get straight men who are feminine, straight transvestites, feminine lesbians, butch heterosexual women and macho gay men. Stop being a fool.
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    There is a fair amount of evidence being put forward suggesting a genetic link (esp from twin studies).

    e.g. You are much more likely to be homosexual if you have an older brother. In evolutionary terms, perhaps because you could then look after your brother's children and help his family, without wanting to start one yourself.

    Also, why would someone choose to be gay? It has historically been a social tabboo (mainly due to primative religious idiots), and to this day it still sort of is.
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    Now then, let's use some accuracy of language here.

    *Being* homosexual - that is, being attracted to members of the same sex - is not thought to be a choice. Genetics, epigenetics, environment and so on all contribute to being homosexual.

    Homosexual *behaviour* - that is, engaging in sexual activities with members of the same sex - can be thought of as a choice. You can be homosexual but not act on it.

    Your argument about natural selection, OP, is far too simplistic. I should know, I'm a geneticist. Look at it this way...humankind has developed the technology to allow people to reproduce who might not in a "natural" world, therefore the selection pressures on humans are different to those of other species.
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    Epigenetics.
    Even if it is a choice, it shouldn't really effect you.
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    (Original post by Yawn11)
    People that are still rinsing the 'homer' jokes :lolwut:

    Anyway, I agree it's a choice. I look it at it like a nasty fetish. Some guys like to BBW chicks, some like bondage and pain, homosexuality is just like that, but the worst since its with another man.

    There is nothing coded in your genes that should make you attracted to the same sex. Your sexual organs are orientated to recieve gratification from the opposite sex.

    Which is why you have homosexuals that act feminine or dress up as woman, or become transvestites AND at the same time other homosexuals are attracted to this?? Why not just get a real female? fetish.

    Some Lesbians tend to be butch or tomboy-ish. PLUS a great amount use strap-on's for sex?? Why not a get a real penis?? fetish.

    Homosexuality is BULLSHlT. It's just because in this modern day and age we've learnt to accept their fetish, which is why there is a large population of homosexuals in comparison to the amount there were in the past.

    Meh, who cares, more pusssy for us lads.
    Very well reasoned and thought out post there
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    (Original post by fredster2004)
    I'm a homersexual! I really get turned on reading the Odyssey.
    Thank you! I've been waiting for someone to get away from The Simpsons and make a joke about the "real" Homer

    (Original post by Yawn11)
    Not really cause you're gay.
    Gay sex is the most manly thing you can do: it's a man, doing what men do, with another man. That sh*t is butch :yes:
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    If it is in your genes it's just the same as a certain disability can be in someone's genes but it doesn't always get passed to every child they have. There is also an argument that sexuality isn't defined at birth (or is only partially defined) and social experiences and development influence it-ie it's not a choice but the way the child's relationships develop.
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    (Original post by TKC)
    Epigenetics.
    Even if it is a choice, it shouldn't really effect you.
    Thanks for that video.


    What the video does not explain is lesbians. If we, as the video eludes to, all start as female. We will be attracted to men. So why would a woman end up being attracted to other women?

    The system proposed where testosterone influences sexuality directly does not explain lesbians because women clearly did not get enough testosterone to become male?
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    (Original post by AshDonson)
    Gay sex is the most manly thing you can do: it's a man, doing what men do, with another man. That sh*t is butch :yes:
    Gay.

    (Original post by paddyman4)
    X
    I read what you wrote but wasn't worth much of a reply. In short if homosexuality is not a choice it is a disease or an unfortunate genetic predisposition.
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    Assuming this is actually a serious thread about homosexuality:
    Genetics doesn't decide everything. the way your brain links up could be another factor.
    And seeing as there is an entire species of solely females, i wouldn't say it was a choice.
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    (Original post by turn and fall)
    When people try to defend homersexuals they often use the argument that they had no choice and that you should not discrimate against somebody who was just born the way they are.

    That argument to me makes no sense. In my opinion being homersexual is a choice. The reason is natrual selection.

    If being homersexual is not a choice it must be part of your genes.

    If it is part of your genes then you would pass the gene on to your children. However homersexuals DO NOT have children generally.

    How could being homersexual be predefined like the colour of your skin if the 'gay' gene is never passed on.


    This leads to the conclusion that being homersexual is a choice because it would not be genetically passed on.


    (I have nothing against homersexuals and their lifestyle choice)


    Opinions?
    Why does being a homersexual need defending?
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    (Original post by turn and fall)
    When people try to defend homersexuals they often use the argument that they had no choice and that you should not discrimate against somebody who was just born the way they are.

    That argument to me makes no sense. In my opinion being homersexual is a choice. The reason is natrual selection.

    If being homersexual is not a choice it must be part of your genes.

    If it is part of your genes then you would pass the gene on to your children. However homersexuals DO NOT have children generally.

    How could being homersexual be predefined like the colour of your skin if the 'gay' gene is never passed on.


    This leads to the conclusion that being homersexual is a choice because it would not be genetically passed on.


    (I have nothing against homersexuals and their lifestyle choice)


    Opinions?
    Either:
    a) You have an appalling lack of understanding of natural selection
    b) You've noticed an incredible oversight in every single biological argument for homosexuality not being a choice.

    It turns out the answer is a.
 
 
 
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