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    (Original post by ryan118244)
    I'm not Dissing nurses though, because they are just as important as doctors and I actually considered becoming a nurse, but there main area is patient healthcare and not knowledge of the body in huge detail, and I have friends who are becoming nurses and they didn't have to do science alevels and are only just now learning in detail at uni.
    I have great respect for nurses, and the fact is nurses and doctors have completely different jobs, and I do believe the ICS medical book says that a reason for not wanting to be a nurse is that they don't learn as much scientific detail of the body.
    And tbh if that's how u interpreted it then that makes me think that u think less of nurses.
    You've just contradicted yourself because they apparently are learning it in detail at uni :confused: So what happens when they qualify do they forget it all when they qualify? as you seem to know more than them at the tender age of whatever!
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    (Original post by ryan118244;29547510 [B)
    The fact is I proberly know more about the body than a nurse does.[/B]
    -1 for spelling, and application in the bin for that nurse comment. Pure ignorance, it's the nurses that get you through your FY1 and FY2 years you will find.

    QUOTE=ryan118244;29547510 Clearly you very naive [/QUOTE]

    ... that's rich.
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    (Original post by Anterior view)
    How do you know a med student would be no better?Med students have earned their right to perform these things not "school or gap year teenagers".And yes I have seen it do you know you can damage nerves, cause a fair amount of bleeding,and mistake veins for arteries. Now Im sure the surgeon was watching but this is not the point. Patients not only have choices but have rights !!!
    I am certainly not as naive as you if you think what you did was cool!
    As for knowing more than the nurses get a life! Theatre nurses have seen this operations hundreds of times and could perform it not only MUCH better than you or the medical students but half of the SHO's
    And if you go into medicine taking the higher ground and antagonise the nurses "who you will depend on one day to save your arse" you are not going to be very popular! rant over!!
    Because i know many med studnets and the doctors i did work experience with said so and im guessing thats why they let me do what i did.
    But did u know there is usually always a lot of bleeding, how can it be possible dangerous if i pulled the veins out when he had set it all up, the fact is i did it more gently anyway.
    How am i antagonising nurses, nurses jobs are not to learn science in detail, there jobs are hugely patient orientated, that fact is i was tryng to use an example to state the fact i have a lot of scientific detail, nurses proberly werent the best example, but they were the first one that came to mind. Its amaxzing how you think that i think im better than a nurse, because that is a complete load of crap, i never in anyway suggested that, SO I APOLOGISE IS ANYONE THOUGHT I DISSED NURSES BECAUSE I WHOLE HEARTEDLY RESPECT THEM. Its amazing how people assume that as sson as you start talking about nurses. And clearly i dont antaganise because ive done so much work experience with nurses who have taught me so much, so why the hell would i diss them and why would i think im better than them, and they all say how nice i am anyway. Ive never once been told i come across as arrogant in anyway.
    And your saying im antagonising, you are a complete arrogant arse, who has to start an argument. There are tonnes of people who have done work experience in an operation theatre, so i dont know why you felt the need to try to criticise what ive done.
    I hope i never have to work with someone like you, and tbh i think you need to get off your high horse, and if you want to criticise how well i do in medicine im going to criticise you ... your clearly not going to do very well if you cant take oppurtunities to to learn and gain great experiences to develop your understanding and expereince in the medical field, why on earth would i have turned down the oppurtunity to help in an operation?!?!
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    (Original post by ryan118244)
    I'm not Dissing nurses though, because they are just as important as doctors and I actually considered becoming a nurse, but there main area is patient healthcare and not knowledge of the body in huge detail, and I have friends who are becoming nurses and they didn't have to do science alevels and are only just now learning in detail at uni.
    I have great respect for nurses, and the fact is nurses and doctors have completely different jobs, and I do believe the ICS medical book says that a reason for not wanting to be a nurse is that they don't learn as much scientific detail of the body.
    And tbh if that's how u interpreted it then that makes me think that u think less of nurses.
    Your last line makes no sense. :lolwut: Of course I don't think less of nurses; if I did, why would we be having this discussion in the first place? You said that you probably knew more about the human body than nurses, and then you use the fact that you know some nurses, who are still at uni, who didn't do science a-levels as back-up. Firstly, in the context I think that a nurse who's actually finished their degree and got experience would probably know more than you. Secondly, I think you're over-estimating the amount of knowledge that you know tbh. And even if you do know loads, which is fine and commendable, you've made it comes across as arrogance from your post which is not such a good thing. Finally, when did science a-levels become such a great frontier for the imparting of anatomy? There's almost next to no anatomy in AH Biology, bar a small unit on the heart which could be gleaned from a couple pages in a science magazine.

    Spoiler:
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    I'm reading the ISC book right now, and nowhere does it specifically say that.


    (Original post by Anterior view)
    x
    You're exaggerating. And blowing this out of proportion. I mean, Ryan (I'm inferring that's your name from your username) was under constant supervision. Not to mention the surgeon was probably giving him a proper "feel" (em, no pun intended) of what surgery was like, which is radically different to standing on the side-lines for a couple hours. Any medical applicant would jump at the chance to have a hand in surgery.

    Spoiler:
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    bad puns. bleaurgh. :getmecoat:


    I also don't think that any patient would refuse, if offered the choice as they'd probably think that refusing to let a medical student watch/do stuff would impact on the quality of the treatment that they receive.

    (Original post by Carter BSc)
    -1 for spelling
    I know right. The grammar makes me cry with woe :emo:

    :p: Please, OP, for the love of God, spell "probably" right. That's all I ask :p:

    ---

    Petty arguments aside, my surgery work experience was pretty much a waste of time. Oddly enough, GP was much more interesting :teeth:



    Actually, cardiology was very good.
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    Just had my interview, and my interviewers were very pleasant and nice, thought I would inform you all.

    It had an informal approach of being very relaxed, and like a conversation, although of course it's still an interview, but they didn't pressure you or jump down your throats at all. So don't be too nervous.
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    (Original post by spacepirate-James)

    I know right. The grammar makes me cry with woe :emo:
    I'm actually not that bothered about his spelling, everyone makes mistakes, but the seeming arrogance that was protruding from his comments and the lack of respect about nurses annoyed me.
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    (Original post by ryan118244)
    But the fact is a med student would be no better clinically and everyone has to start sometime. The fact is I had a senior surgeon who teaches clinical medicine, how on earth could anything go wrong. Have you ever seen veins being pulled out? The surgeons yank them so hard that the patients legs go everywhere!! The fact is I proberly know more about the body than a nurse does.
    Clearly you very naive if you think u could get the same amount of experience out of watching than actually taking part. And as a patient you wouldn't have a choice anyway, it would be the surgeons decision, and if you didn't want anyone to help in an operation how would med students train? The fact is te theatre staff thought I was so competent they thought I was a 6th year med student from Oxford, and the fact is I actually did more than the 6th year students anyway which clearly shows I have an aptitude and that I'm able.
    It was the great western.
    You sound so up yourself! I mean congrats, your work experience sounds fab and it sounds like you really got involved but this doesn't mean those who haven't done what you have aren't "able and have an aptitude", have you not wondered why Medicine is now unbelievably competitive? Because so many applicants are "able". No offence, but I , personally wouldn't want you performing surgery on me! A medical student, fair enough, there are provisions in place for them and they already have a place. The fact is that you don't!!

    Even if you had a "senior surgeon" who teaches clinical medicine, this doesn't mean nothing could go wrong, what is he? Superman?

    I was shadowing a senior and very well known cardiologist who advises Nicola Sturgeon on cardiovascular diseases, etc. But I didn't perform cardiac catheterisation or a heart transplant. Even if I felt I had seen it so many times that I thought I could perform it with my eyes closed, I still wouldn't do it, first of all because the patient probabaly thinks they are having a qualified surgeon performing the procedure or at least someone who has the right to be there and taking part. That's just me, I mean, if I was a medical student, I'd probably jump at the chance

    And the Oxford bit? Seriously r u joking me?

    Did they really say, "OMG you seem like such a smart young man, you must be a 6th year student from Oxford". And anyway the best doctor's don't come from Oxford, they just have very good memory meaning they get excellent grades and Oxford take them in to stay at the top of the league tables! I have heard of Oxford lawyers and doctors being utterly ****!
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    (Original post by Anterior view)
    You've just contradicted yourself because they apparently are learning it in detail at uni :confused: So what happens when they qualify do they forget it all when they qualify? as you seem to know more than them at the tender age of whatever!
    No not really, i said that they didnt do science alevels put they are now learning it in the detail that i did. Hardcore science wise, nurses dont learn as much as what people think, my aunties a nurse and i have 4 friends at uni wanting to become nurses, they have all told me they dont learn science in huge detail and have actually asked me for help on stuff. IM not by any means saying nurses dont learn, im saying they have much more clincal medicine and patient orientated learning ... this is what nurses have told me, im only saying what they said to me.

    (Original post by Carter BSc)
    -1 for spelling, and application in the bin for that nurse comment. Pure ignorance, it's the nurses that get you through your FY1 and FY2 years you will find.

    QUOTE=ryan118244;29547510 Clearly you very naive
    ... that's rich.[/QUOTE]

    Well i was actually deaf when i was younger so no my spelling isnt amazing, but i dont really care because i wasnt trying to show how great i was at grammar.
    Im sorry if you thought i was criticising nurses or being ignorant because im really not and it wasnt the best example by any means i must admit. But i think i have said like 10 times now how amazing i think nurses are, and if i wasnt going to become a doctor i would seriously think about becoming i nurse ... so i hardly disrespect them.
    And as for being naive, i think i have a good understanding of what medicine entails, after all i am a reapplicant, so its hardly like im not committed.

    I only used the nurses comment because the other guy was pissing me off and i just wanted to get the point across that i am scientifically able.
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    :erm:

    how many of you have been to the open day? or plan to go to one later this year?

    (Original post by Anterior view)
    OMG I give up! just stay away from me with your scalpel. You did it more gently because you didnt know what you were doing! The mechanical action its self is not the issue here why cant you see this?
    :facepalm:
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    Let's just end this!
    Lol, I think a lot of us are just really anxious and perhaps even a little frustrated about UCAS maybe?
    Although, some already hold offers, u lucky ********

    Anyway, Ryan, it sounds like you are committed, you have really had fantastic work experience, and I believe you when you say you didn't mean to dis nurses. I know it's really easy to come across as dissing them even if that's not ur intention. But without nurses, hospitals would cease to function.
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    (Original post by garlicbreadman)
    You sound so up yourself! I mean congrats, your work experience sounds fab and it sounds like you really got involved but this doesn't mean those who haven't done what you have aren't "able and have an aptitude", have you not wondered why Medicine is now unbelievably competitive? Because so many applicants are "able". No offence, but I , personally wouldn't want you performing surgery on me! A medical student, fair enough, there are provisions in place for them and they already have a place. The fact is that you don't!!

    Even if you had a "senior surgeon" who teaches clinical medicine, this doesn't mean nothing could go wrong, what is he? Superman?

    I was shadowing a senior and very well known cardiologist who advises Nicola Sturgeon on cardiovascular diseases, etc. But I didn't perform cardiac catheterisation or a heart transplant. Even if I felt I had seen it so many times that I thought I could perform it with my eyes closed, I still wouldn't do it, first of all because the patient probabaly thinks they are having a qualified surgeon performing the procedure or at least someone who has the right to be there and taking part.

    And the Oxford bit? Seriously r u joking me?

    Did they really say, "OMG you seem like such a smart young man, you must be a 6th year student from Oxford". And anyway the best doctor's don't come from Oxford, they just have very good memory meaning they get excellent grades and Oxford take them in to stay at the top of the league tables! I have heard of Oxford lawyers and doctors being utterly ****!

    How else are you ment to deffend yourself, i was trying to get across that im able basically. I completely agree with you that everyone is able, thats great you didnt want to get involved, but at the end of the day i did and the surgeon obviously thought i was capable.
    Nows who trying to impress by throwing names about, pulling out a veins is hardly equivelent to a heart transplant.
    As for the oxford bit, its because they are the students who come to the hospital by me, if i had said '6th year bristol student' you wouldnt think i was trying to boast then would you? I wasnt, i just said it because thats what they thought i was.
    I actually am completely with you on that, i by no means in anyway think that oxbridge students are any better, i actually never want to go to oxford for medicine.
    Its quite funny you are trying to tell me that because im always ranting on to everyone else about how oxford studnets are not by any means the best, so you dont have to tell me that.
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    (Original post by garlicbreadman)
    Although, some already hold offers, u lucky ********
    :holmes: who would they be?

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    :p:







    for how many people is St Andrews their first choice?
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    (Original post by garlicbreadman)
    You sound so up yourself! I mean congrats, your work experience sounds fab and it sounds like you really got involved but this doesn't mean those who haven't done what you have aren't "able and have an aptitude", have you not wondered why Medicine is now unbelievably competitive? Because so many applicants are "able". No offence, but I , personally wouldn't want you performing surgery on me! A medical student, fair enough, there are provisions in place for them and they already have a place. The fact is that you don't!!

    Even if you had a "senior surgeon" who teaches clinical medicine, this doesn't mean nothing could go wrong, what is he? Superman?

    I was shadowing a senior and very well known cardiologist who advises Nicola Sturgeon on cardiovascular diseases, etc. But I didn't perform cardiac catheterisation or a heart transplant. Even if I felt I had seen it so many times that I thought I could perform it with my eyes closed, I still wouldn't do it, first of all because the patient probabaly thinks they are having a qualified surgeon performing the procedure or at least someone who has the right to be there and taking part. That's just me, I mean, if I was a medical student, I'd probably jump at the chance

    And the Oxford bit? Seriously r u joking me?

    Did they really say, "OMG you seem like such a smart young man, you must be a 6th year student from Oxford". And anyway the best doctor's don't come from Oxford, they just have very good memory meaning they get excellent grades and Oxford take them in to stay at the top of the league tables! I have heard of Oxford lawyers and doctors being utterly ****!
    THIS
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    (Original post by ryan118244)
    How else are you ment to deffend yourself, i was trying to get across that im able basically. I completely agree with you that everyone is able, thats great you didnt want to get involved, but at the end of the day i did and the surgeon obviously thought i was capable.
    Nows who trying to impress by throwing names about, pulling out a veins is hardly equivelent to a heart transplant.
    As for the oxford bit, its because they are the students who come to the hospital by me, if i had said '6th year bristol student' you wouldnt think i was trying to boast then would you? I wasnt, i just said it because thats what they thought i was.
    I actually am completely with you on that, i by no means in anyway think that oxbridge students are any better, i actually never want to go to oxford for medicine.
    Its quite funny you are trying to tell me that because im always ranting on to everyone else about how oxford studnets are not by any means the best, so you dont have to tell me that.
    It's not that I wouldn't like to get more involved, it's that I wasn't asked to but more importantly, I feel that it is ethically not acceptable, obviously depending on what you do.

    I don't understand how solely, pulling out veins gives you a great understanding of a doctor's daily life, so I really hope you also did ward rounds, clinics, followed a multidisciplinary meeting round, etc as well, which by the sounds of it you did
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    (Original post by spacepirate-James)
    :holmes: who would they be?

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    :p:







    for how many people is St Andrews their first choice?
    St Andrews comes in joint-second for me:

    1)Edinburgh
    2) St Andrews & Aberdeen
    3)Dundee

    Make sure u don't take ur offer for granted

    and I PM'd u u didn't reply
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    (Original post by ryan118244)
    The fact is te theatre staff thought I was so competent they thought I was a 6th year med student from Oxford, and the fact is I actually did more than the 6th year students anyway
    Man!

    Give the rest of us a chance will you! You are on fire.
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    (Original post by garlicbreadman)

    and I PM'd u u didn't reply
    how very interesting. i shall check; may have over-looked it


    :holmes:



    EDIT: rectified.
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    (Original post by spacepirate-James)
    Your last line makes no sense. :lolwut: Of course I don't think less of nurses; if I did, why would we be having this discussion in the first place? You said that you probably knew more about the human body than nurses, and then you use the fact that you know some nurses, who are still at uni, who didn't do science a-levels as back-up. Firstly, in the context I think that a nurse who's actually finished their degree and got experience would probably know more than you. Secondly, I think you're over-estimating the amount of knowledge that you know tbh. And even if you do know loads, which is fine and commendable, you've made it comes across as arrogance from your post which is not such a good thing. Finally, when did science a-levels become such a great frontier for the imparting of anatomy? There's almost next to no anatomy in AH Biology, bar a small unit on the heart which could be gleaned from a couple pages in a science magazine.

    Spoiler:
    Show
    I'm reading the ISC book right now, and nowhere does it specifically say that.




    You're exaggerating. And blowing this out of proportion. I mean, Ryan (I'm inferring that's your name from your username) was under constant supervision. Not to mention the surgeon was probably giving him a proper "feel" (em, no pun intended) of what surgery was like, which is radically different to standing on the side-lines for a couple hours. Any medical applicant would jump at the chance to have a hand in surgery.

    Spoiler:
    Show
    bad puns. bleaurgh. :getmecoat:


    I also don't think that any patient would refuse, if offered the choice as they'd probably think that refusing to let a medical student watch/do stuff would impact on the quality of the treatment that they receive.



    I know right. The grammar makes me cry with woe :emo:

    :p: Please, OP, for the love of God, spell "probably" right. That's all I ask :p:

    ---

    Petty arguments aside, my surgery work experience was pretty much a waste of time. Oddly enough, GP was much more interesting :teeth:



    Actually, cardiology was very good.
    I was simple saying you assumed that i was dissing a nurse when the fact is i wasnt, sorry if it came across that way.

    I know my spelling isnt great, but thats just *****y to bring that up especially since that the reason its bad was because i was deaf when i was younger, and ive had massive help to improve my english, and it was hardly like grammar/ spelling actually mattered in these posts.

    (Original post by Carter BSc)
    I'm actually not that bothered about his spelling, everyone makes mistakes, but the seeming arrogance that was protruding from his comments and the lack of respect about nurses annoyed me.
    I really dont see how that was arrogance, sorry if it came across as that, im **** at wording things, it was a loose generalisation. I hardly have lack of respect for nurses, thats got to be like the most stupid thing u said, since when have i dissed nurses????

    (Original post by Anterior view)
    OMG I give up! just stay away from me with your scalpel. You did it more gently because you didnt know what you were doing! The mechanical action its self is not the issue here why cant you see this?
    I give up with you, this all started because you criticised the point that i did work experience helping in an operation, im guessing a lot of people wouldnt turn down that offer.
    Plus your the one that came across as a complete arrogant ass when you had to pathetically start all of this.
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    (Original post by ryan118244)
    I was simple saying you assumed that i was dissing a nurse when the fact is i wasnt, sorry if it came across that way.

    I know my spelling isnt great, but thats just *****y to bring that up especially since that the reason its bad was because i was deaf when i was younger, and ive had massive help to improve my english, and it was hardly like grammar/ spelling actually mattered in these posts.



    I really dont see how that was arrogance, sorry if it came across as that, im **** at wording things. I hardly have less respect for nurses, you can think that all you like.



    I give uo with you, this all started because you criticised the point that i did work experience helping in an operation, im guessing a lot of people wouldnt turn down that offer.

    YOU ARE JUST REPEATING YOURSELF!
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    (Original post by garlicbreadman)
    It's not that I wouldn't like to get more involved, it's that I wasn't asked to but more importantly, I feel that it is ethically not acceptable, obviously depending on what you do.

    I don't understand how solely, pulling out veins gives you a great understanding of a doctor's daily life, so I really hope you also did ward rounds, clinics, followed a multidisciplinary meeting round, etc as well, which by the sounds of it you did
    Fine i respect that, but i had the oppurtunity and i took it.
    Haha obviously, but it gave me an insight to whether i actually like surgery, whether i find it too gruesome etc and i have to say i really liked it and i find the more direct immediate results of surgery more appealing.
 
 
 
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