Top-up Fees Watch

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Girton
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#1
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#1
With the Government all set to try and pass the latest in a series of bills to pave the way for top up fees, I ask:

Are you in favour of top up fees being introduced?

Let me know what you all think.
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Nima
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#2
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(Original post by Girton)
With the Government all set to try and pass the latest in a series of bills to pave the way for top up fees, I ask:

Are you in favour of top up fees being introduced?

Let me know what you all think.
Yes, i am in favour, i want courses to be more competitive so that it reduces my chances of an oxbridge place, and i want tuition fees to cost a load more, especially when my mum is on benefit.

roll on blair and his ridiculous plans - not the first time.....
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Radagasty
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#3
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Hmm... I am in two minds about this: I want the bill to succeed so that the universities will get badly-needed funding, thought it would be still nowhere near enough, yet I want the bill to fail so that Tony Blair gets kicked out.
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MadNatSci
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(Original post by Radagasty)
Hmm... I am in two minds about this: I want the bill to succeed so that the universities will get badly-needed funding, thought it would be still nowhere near enough, yet I want the bill to fail so that Tony Blair gets kicked out.

He wouldn't resign even if he lost... Do you think there would be a vote of no-confidence?
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Juwel
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(Original post by MadNatSci)
He wouldn't resign even if he lost... Do you think there would be a vote of no-confidence?
The motion would be defeated if there was one I reckon. But then there won't be.
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Radagasty
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(Original post by ZJuwelH)
The motion would be defeated if there was one I reckon. But then there won't be.
I think a lot depends on the outcome of the Hutton report.
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dreamer
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#7
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I am in agreement that there needs to be more funding, but I think greater links with industry and better links with alumni could be more actively encouraged.
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Girton
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#8
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Aren't there any plans proposed by the other parties to secure the necessary funding for Universities without introducing top-up fees?
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yawn1
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#9
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Graduates in the future will be paying -
22% income tax
11% National Insurance
9% Graduate tax - thats 42% tax in total.
But when that graduate passes the 22% tax bracket (which does not make them by any means wealthy as more parents on middle incomes will verify) the income tax paid will rise to 60% of income!!
Now think again about whether you agree that future undergrads should be subjected to this when millionaires and politicians aint.
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Girton
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#10
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Do top-up fees still apply if you move abroad after University?
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Bigcnee
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#11
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(Original post by Radagasty)
I think a lot depends on the outcome of the Hutton report.
No. The vote is scheduled the day before the outcome of the Hutton enquiry is known.
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Bigcnee
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#12
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(Original post by yawn1)
Graduates in the future will be paying -
22% income tax
11% National Insurance
9% Graduate tax - thats 42% tax in total.
But when that graduate passes the 22% tax bracket (which does not make them by any means wealthy as more parents on middle incomes will verify) the income tax paid will rise to 60% of income!!
Now think again about whether you agree that future undergrads should be subjected to this when millionaires and politicians aint.
My point exactly!
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Girton
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#13
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(Original post by Bigcnee)
No. The vote is scheduled the day before the outcome of the Hutton enquiry is known.
Whilst that is true, there are many more votes on top-up fees to come. The vote on the 27th must be good for Blair for him to even continue with this idea and, if it is, the other votes will take place after the outcome of the Hutton enquiry is known. The Times suggests that the rebels will side with Blair to give him much-needed confidence the day before the Hutton enquiry ends but then gang up on him in the later stages of the top-up fees vote, which will take place weeks afterwards.
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TK0
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#14
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as much as i hate the conservatives they seem to have a clue on this, the policy to stop so many people going to uni - especially those who are wasting time and could do vocational training which could be done much better. less people at uni and funding through direct taxation is the best way.
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kildare
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#15
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(Original post by bono)
Yes, i am in favour, i want courses to be more competitive so that it reduces my chances of an oxbridge place, and i want tuition fees to cost a load more, especially when my mum is on benefit.

roll on blair and his ridiculous plans - not the first time.....
Why would top up fees make courses more competitive? And, if they did, surely that would be a good thing?
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Girton
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#16
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I think that Bono could have been referring to two things:

1) Specifically next year will be far more competitive at Oxbridge, as people who would have taken deferred entry decide not to get caught up with top-up fees.

2) In the long run, Oxbridge will be charging far more than the other Universities and so academia will no longer suffice. It then comes down to who has the most money to spend on a course.
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scanner
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#17
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(Original post by TK0)
as much as i hate the conservatives they seem to have a clue on this, the policy to stop so many people going to uni - especially those who are wasting time and could do vocational training which could be done much better. less people at uni and funding through direct taxation is the best way.
No the Conservatives are being opportunistic on this. They now admit that their policy will change before the election and a few Tories will either abstain or vote for the proposals - mainly those with some HE links.

You might like to look at the growth areas of recent years - many are vocational. Many of the 'new' universities have a strong focus on degrees that are directly vocational. These are useful. Whilst I'm sure al is not well in some areas of vocational education the country does not need thousands of extra people with craft qualifications. The world is changing as are jobs - the Tories will catch on one day.
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Girton
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#18
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(Original post by scanner)
No the Conservatives are being opportunistic on this. They now admit that their policy will change before the election and a few Tories will either abstain or vote for the proposals - mainly those with some HE links.

You might like to look at the growth areas of recent years - many are vocational. Many of the 'new' universities have a strong focus on degrees that are directly vocational. These are useful. Whilst I'm sure al is not well in some areas of vocational education the country does not need thousands of extra people with craft qualifications. The world is changing as are jobs - the Tories will catch on one day.

I just wanted to point out some untruths in your post. Firstly, Michael Howard today confirmed publicly that the Tories have always been and will always be against top-up fees and that this will not change. I'm quoting from Michael Howard's interview on Breakfast with Frost this morning - where are you quoting from when you say that they will change their policy? Also, with regard to those members of the Tory party who will abstain in the vote, they are following Michael Howard's orders as they are Scottish MPs and Howard believes it immoral that Scottish MPs should be allowed to vote on matters which have nothing to do with Scotland (eg. Top-Up Fees). Hope that sets the record straight!
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scanner
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#19
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(Original post by Girton)
I just wanted to point out some untruths in your post. Firstly, Michael Howard today confirmed publicly that the Tories have always been and will always be against top-up fees and that this will not change. I'm quoting from Michael Howard's interview on Breakfast with Frost this morning - where are you quoting from when you say that they will change their policy? Also, with regard to those members of the Tory party who will abstain in the vote, they are following Michael Howard's orders as they are Scottish MPs and Howard believes it immoral that Scottish MPs should be allowed to vote on matters which have nothing to do with Scotland (eg. Top-Up Fees). Hope that sets the record straight!
I think you are misuderstanding what Howard is saying or are rather too easily taken in! At present the Tories in effect have no policy other than to oppose Labour's proposals. They (Howard, Yeo, Collins) have said repeatedly over the past couple of weeks that the policy wil be reformulated for their election manifesto. Sure it may not contain top up fees as such but they will have to find some way out of their current muddle - so they either find ways of increasng funding or to uphold their current policy of no fees at all they need to impose severe cuts affecting every university. They've have put themselves in rather difficult position. See quotes from guys like Patten and Howe to witness the discontent within that party on their policy.

On Scotland - answer this - why has the one Scottish Tory voted 37 times on solely English matters so far in this Parliament but suddenly it's become a point of principle!! Sheer hypocrisy. In any cases the fees policy has a significant impact on Scotland.
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Girton
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#20
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A few short points:

1) You're wrong - I have heard Howard actually say that words "The Tories will always oppose Top-Up Fees"

2) They have no official policies as the party is undergoing reconstruction after IDS's departure

3) It doesn't matter how many times Scottish Tories have voted this Parliament as the vast majority of it was taken up under IDS's rule NOT Howard's. Honestly!
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