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Chemistry Research, Durham University
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Original post by Ultimate1
Wait so the fee's are going to stay the same?! :shock:


In 2012 the fees are increasing (depending on what Durham sets them at) for new undergraduates.... I meant that if you do a 4 year undergraduate masters, you pay undergraduate fees (currently £3290) for all 4 years.

If you do a BSc, graduate and then stay and do a separate Masters, you pay separately for the masters, which can cost up to £20k (not sure about Durham prices, but Economics/etc at LSE is over £20k for 1 year). I think it's about £10k at Durham, so only just higher than the undergraduate fee will be.

That's "the same" bit I meant, as in a masters will cost about the same as an undergraduate year (depending on which fee level Durham decide to go for).
(edited 13 years ago)
Chemistry Research, Durham University
Durham University
Durham
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Reply 2061
Original post by angelmxxx
In 2012 the fees are increasing (depending on what Durham sets them at) for new undergraduates.... I meant that if you do a 4 year undergraduate masters, you pay undergraduate fees (currently £3290) for all 4 years.

If you do a BSc, graduate and then stay and do a separate Masters, you pay separately for the masters, which can cost up to £20k (not sure about Durham prices, but Economics/etc at LSE is over £20k for 1 year). I think it's about £10k at Durham, so only just higher than the undergraduate fee will be.

That's "the same" bit I meant, as in a masters will cost about the same as an undergraduate year (depending on which fee level Durham decide to go for).

But an undergraduate masters isn't the same thing as a postgraduate masters, is it?
Reply 2062
Original post by Sappho
But an undergraduate masters isn't the same thing as a postgraduate masters, is it?


Or what is an undergrad masters?
Original post by Sappho
But an undergraduate masters isn't the same thing as a postgraduate masters, is it?


No - well as far as I know (and I don't do sciences so haven't researched them much, although there are Business and anthropology ones starting next year at Durham which will be social sciences undergraduate masters!), a postgrad masters is better but nobody can really agree/bother do decide how much better.

I don't know if someone with an undergrad masters would be able to go for a job which just said you need a Masters, but I'm not aware of that many jobs which want a Masters anyway, except a few which want one in a specific subject (eg. sustainability). If they want the specific subject then I doubt an undergrad masters would be ok anyway, as it would be too general (as in 'MSci physics', rather than the specific subject).

An undergraduate masters is definitely a higher qualification though. Msc --> MSci ---> BSc.

Nobody I know seems to think it's worth graduating with a BSc and paying £10k/whatever to get an MSc though, they've all gone for the 4 year undergrad MSci option.
:confused: I can't really help with that question, sorry! Best to email universities and companies if you're thinking about doing one though.


I think the company/uni would want to know how much focus there was on research vs how many modules were taught - I don't know if the sciences ones are mostly taught plus a dissertation (like 3rd year undergrad for a BSc), but I know that the new anthropology ones will be really research-focused for the 4th year.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 2064
Original post by skypig97
Or what is an undergrad masters?

I think its when you immediately apply for a four-year MA course instead of a three-year BA course. Correct me if I'm wrong :smile:
Original post by skypig97
Or what is an undergrad masters?


Instead of doing a BSc, graduating, then doing a separate Masters degree (1 year), you do a 4 year undergraduate course (ie only graduate after year 4).

They're pretty common in sciences and engineering. So after 4 years you get an MSci, rather than the BSc + MSc you'd get if you'd done 3 years, graduated and done a separate masters.

The good thing is that once you start in year 1, unless you get low marks, you get to stay for the full 4 years - ie no going through the whole 'find a uni' thing for your masters, you get the loan for the full 4 years and pay undergraduate fees (£3290) for the full 4 years, no having to work out if you've done enough modules in physical chemistry or anything to get onto a Chemistry MSc at another uni.

if you do a separate masters it can cost up to £25k for 1 years' tuition at some universities!

http://www.dur.ac.uk/chemistry/undergraduate/courses/which_course/

Very rare in social sciences/arts, but new ones at Durham in anthroplogy: http://www.dur.ac.uk/anthropology/undergraduate/courses/ug_programmes/manth/

not that you will NOT have a postgrad degree if you do the 4 year MAnth/MSci/MChem, etc., just a higher-level undergrad degree than a BSc/BA...hence why it's so confusing, as you do not graduate after the third year!!

The 1 year MSc/MAs ARE separate postgraduate degrees.
Original post by Sappho
I think its when you immediately apply for a four-year MA course instead of a three-year BA course. Correct me if I'm wrong :smile:


Essentially this, but you don't get a postgraduate degree, just 1 undergraduate degree.

If you do a BA, graduate, then do a 1 year postgrad MA, you have a postgrad qualification :smile:

(Not the same as MAs at Scottish ancient unis, which are just BAs but tradition makes them called MAs...like how Oxbridge Maths degrees are BAs, despite obviously being science degrees!)
Original post by skypig97
Or what is an undergrad masters?


For Physics -

"Our course structures have been designed to provide flexibility in your final choice of degree programme. If you are mainly interested in a degree in Physics as a preparation for another career you may wish to choose the BSc degree. If you are looking for a professional training which leads to research in Physics or a Physics-related career, we recommend the MPhys degree. The first and second years of the BSc and MPhys degree courses in Physics, Physics & Astronomy and Theoretical Physics are identical, so for these degrees you need not make a firm choice of course until the end of the second year. The courses diverge in year three. It is not possible to convert a BSc to an MPhys simply by adding an extra year.

If you choose the three-year programme your degree honours classification is based on your second and third year work; the weighting between years used for calculating your final mark will be 2:3. For the MPhys programme your degree class is based on the work done in the second, third and fourth years, with a weighting between years of 2:3:4. In year 4, half the mark comes from an advanced research project which can be experimental, computational or theoretical and is written up as an MPhys thesis."

http://www.dur.ac.uk/physics/undergraduate/courses/

(They're only available for sciences + Queen's campus anthropology + Queen's campus business.)
Reply 2068
Original post by angelmxxx
Essentially this, but you don't get a postgraduate degree, just 1 undergraduate degree.

If you do a BA, graduate, then do a 1 year postgrad MA, you have a postgrad qualification :smile:

(Not the same as MAs at Scottish ancient unis, which are just BAs but tradition makes them called MAs...like how Oxbridge Maths degrees are BAs, despite obviously being science degrees!)


In addition to this, Oxbridge science 4-year courses still give out MA degrees :rolleyes:

Out of curiosity: Which degrees are awarded student after completing undergraduate MA subject and subsequently graduate MA? MA et MA?
Original post by Ivanka
In addition to this, Oxbridge science 4-year courses still give out MA degrees :rolleyes:

Out of curiosity: Which degrees are awarded student after completing undergraduate MA subject and subsequently graduate MA? MA et MA?


Haha, maybe! Although they'd have to be Oxbridge I think because Durham's non-science 4year courses are going to be MAnth etc.

Interesting though - do you think someone with a 4year undergrad masters would be accepted onto an MA/MSc course? As the postgrad masters would be a higher qualification than they already had, but the MChem/MSci/etc is supposed to be good enough to let you go straight into a PhD....:confused::rolleyes:
Reply 2070
Original post by angelmxxx
Haha, maybe! Although they'd have to be Oxbridge I think because Durham's non-science 4year courses are going to be MAnth etc.

Interesting though - do you think someone with a 4year undergrad masters would be accepted onto an MA/MSc course? As the postgrad masters would be a higher qualification than they already had, but the MChem/MSci/etc is supposed to be good enough to let you go straight into a PhD....:confused::rolleyes:


I came across a woman that studied as an undergraduate at St Andrews and then continued her studies at Oxford in MA Scottish Literature...so I think it is possible.
Reply 2071
Original post by angelmxxx
is that via combined social sciences? Haven't heard of social policy at Durham, is it in the politics department?

Good luck!


Yeah it is, Sociology and Social Policy is one option and Education is the second, thank you!
Original post by Ivanka
I came across a woman that studied as an undergraduate at St Andrews and then continued her studies at Oxford in MA Scottish Literature...so I think it is possible.


Scottish MAs are just BAs really though aren't they, but called MA for tradition, and 4 years because of the Scottish educational/school structure?

Must've looked funny on her CV though, MAMA!
Original post by gemily
Yeah it is, Sociology and Social Policy is one option and Education is the second, thank you!


Sounds great, I do education within combined...going to look up social policy modules now (not that I don't do enough subjects already :frown:, but that sounds really interesting!)
Reply 2074
I have a question regarding modules within Combined Arts - I read in the prospectus something like they don't expect to have made your final choices at the time you apply - does it mean I can change the modules I indicated on UCAS once I arrive?
Reply 2075
Original post by angelmxxx
Sounds great, I do education within combined...going to look up social policy modules now (not that I don't do enough subjects already :frown:, but that sounds really interesting!)


Do you go to Durham already? I might sound a bit stupid asking this after I've applied, but what do you study in education? It came about as a bit of an accident for me, as the UCAS for combined honours showed that Sociology and Social Policy were 2 different pathways, it was only when I got an email from an admissions tutor at Durham when I found out they were combined, and I would have to pick another, so I chose education as I think I'll enjoy it, and I would like to work in educational policy, so it seemed right - I was torn between education or politics, as politics would probably give me a higher chance of an offer as I do A-Level politics!

Also, I don't supose you'd know this, but is there many BTEC students at Durham? I was just wondering how much of a disadvantage I'm at (I do the certificate, which is equievilant to 2 A-Levels, then 2 additional A-Levels).
Original post by angelmxxx
I'm at Hild Bede :smile:

If you decide you do want to do another subject, you can always swap to a BSc and then do a separate Masters, although obviously that costs a lot more for the 4th year, and hopefully you won't want to leave Durham so you may as well do the undergraduate masters.

Though for the people starting in 2012 it'll cost about the same so I guess people might start going for that option.

Nice, I have an offer from St Marys, which sounds good apart from the prospect of sharing a room, do you know anything about that?
You sound like you are enjoying Durham which is good. Do you find it better than sixth form? I will try and stay on until 4th year to keep costs down, though the separate masters takes twice as long to do, so it is more convenient to do the undergrad masters I think. Are you thinking of doing an undergraduate masters?
Original post by gemily
Do you go to Durham already? I might sound a bit stupid asking this after I've applied, but what do you study in education? It came about as a bit of an accident for me, as the UCAS for combined honours showed that Sociology and Social Policy were 2 different pathways, it was only when I got an email from an admissions tutor at Durham when I found out they were combined, and I would have to pick another, so I chose education as I think I'll enjoy it, and I would like to work in educational policy, so it seemed right - I was torn between education or politics, as politics would probably give me a higher chance of an offer as I do A-Level politics!

Also, I don't supose you'd know this, but is there many BTEC students at Durham? I was just wondering how much of a disadvantage I'm at (I do the certificate, which is equievilant to 2 A-Levels, then 2 additional A-Levels).


I am, I'm a 2nd year....I've had a look at the faculty handbook and can't find social policy, so I think your certificate would just say Sociology and Education Studies (unless you do other subjects too). There is a social policy 3rd year module but that's about it :s-smilie:
www.dur.ac.uk/faculty.handbook shows you the modules. The combined degree will give you much more module choice, and let you do a dissertation in sociology if you want to, but you'll need to make sure you do the right prerequisites from year 1: the double module in year 1, and the double research sociological methods module in year 2.

If you want to do your dissertation in Education, it's not technically allowed but if you ask and are persistent you could be able to get onto the year 2 research module, and then do a dissertation.

What you put on the ucas form isn't binding at all, most people change their mind! It'd probably be a good idea for you to do sociology, education and politics in year 1 (plus the compulsory module).

So you could do 1 compulsory module + sociology double module (2) + 2 politics modules + 1 education module (or vice-versa for politics and education).

If you use the faculty handbook link you can see module descriptions, but education studies is basically the philosophy/sociology/politics of education - ie how education is influenced and responds to political and social pressures, eg. grammar schools/comprehensives, traditional vs child-centred learning approaches, assessment, different types of learning (a bit of psychology in that I think, not sure as I didn't do that module!).

It covers the issues from 2 sides - the political/social side, and the philosophy of education side (eg. how we should research, if we should change assessment to ensure that neither girls or boys are disadvantaged, is access to higher education fair (and what fair means in that context), why educational issues exist and are such big issues politically....)

I don't know anyone who did a btec. That doesn't mean you can't get in with one though, which subject is it in and are you predicted distinctions? Bear in mind that although you've chosen some of the subjects with the highest coursework percentages, you will still be assessed largely by exams - probably 40% coursework/60% exams (ish!). Obviously that's a big difference from the BTECs, which are all coursework.

They definitely won't reject you just because you're doing a btec, but is it an academic one (rather than practical/vocational)?
Original post by LukethePianoMan
Nice, I have an offer from St Marys, which sounds good apart from the prospect of sharing a room, do you know anything about that?
You sound like you are enjoying Durham which is good. Do you find it better than sixth form? I will try and stay on until 4th year to keep costs down, though the separate masters takes twice as long to do, so it is more convenient to do the undergrad masters I think. Are you thinking of doing an undergraduate masters?


You'll rotate rooms each terms, Mary's have a complex (ish) system. Basically you get allocated a room in term 1, might be sharing, might be ensuite, might be neither/both. Then you get into groups of 5 (I think) at the end of that term, of people you want to live next to on a corridor. Each of you gets points based on how good your term 1 room was. Eg. if you had a single ensuite you'd probably get 1, if you had to share and didn't have an ensuite you'd get 3.

Then you add up the number of points for your group, they rank the groups and give the groups with the highest number of points the best accommodation for term 2. Not sure how it works for term 3 but I guess they just re-order the groups based on term 1 + term 2 score.

You'll have to ask the college for the exact info but I think it works something like that.

It's so different from 6th form, even if you boarded - it's a bigger but still really close group of people all around you.

I can't do an undergrad masters as I don't do a science degree. However a postgrad Masters is usually 1 year, so the same amount of time as the extra 4th year (might be 12 months instead of 9, but little difference!) Obviously higher cost, risk of applying to unis and not getting offers, hassle of possibly changing unis, etc...but more chance to specialise/change subject. As a non-scientist, I really don't know the pros and cons so it's best to ring up your department, but I have seen on a couple of the science subjects' websites that they encourage you to apply for the 4 year course and will let you drop to 3 if you want to - it's easier to sort out student finance etc. if you tell them you want to do the most expensive course to start with. They won't mind at all having to give you less money, but it can be a big effort trying to register changing to a longer course with them!
Reply 2079
Original post by Johnny Luk
Congratz on everyone having offers here. Durham is a awesome University.

Feel free to ask me questions, especially on the following in which I have direct experience:

St Cuthberts Society (although Ive visited every College except for the ones in Queenss.

=)



I know it's not your college, but could you possibly tell me about St Aidan's? It's where I've been allocated and I know practically nothing about it! It seems very friendly and laid back which I like but some more info would be much appreciated! I've mostly heard about its amazing views and being a trek from the rest of the uni (although it doesn't look that far on the map but I guess because of the hill). If you could tell me anything about the sort of accommodation people get, the facilities, their events and its overall reputation etc. that would be great!