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Does the SNP allow English people to join it? watch

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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    I'm English, and I want Scotland to be independent/sovereign. I think the UK should break up and England be independent/sovereign too.

    Does the SNP allow English people to join it? And also, why is the break-up of the UK a bad thing?
    Your username implies that you are not ethnically English, so what gives you the right to disrupt the political union between the indigenous peoples of Briton. If you are not ethnically English, then it is none of your concern or business. You should not have a say.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I don't think one need make an argument for the existence of a country. Indeed, if they did, then why focus on the British union? Why not the union of four kingdoms that brought Scotland into existence, or the seven that brought England into existence?
    It was more than seven -_-
    There were many many kings of various parts of England and thus many Kingdoms.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    So there is difficulty for us ordinary folk to find out. However, I am confident in saying that England has a greater chance of survival outside of the Union due to London and the South East - Very rich.
    'Survival' is a very low bar for a country to reach. I don't think there is any real question about Scotland and England being able to survive outside of the Union - how does a country cease to survive anyway? - or even either being thrown into great poverty as a result.

    But yes, there is mutual benefit in remaining in Union I think. I hope the history of the Union is taught in history lessons... it should be.
    History lessons in state schools particularly are absolute rot. They cover a couple of tiny pieces of British history, with little attempt to examine the recurring themes.

    The Reformation, the reign of Bloody Mary, conflict between Mary Queen of Scots and Elizabeth of England, the accession of James VI/I to the thrones of GB, the religious turmoil of the Stewart era, the civil war, the Glorious Revolution, the British union, the Jacobite Risings, the creation of an orthodox British-Scottish identity during the Scottish Enlightenment and the visit of George IV to Scotland are all interlinked parts of one historical narrative, and few of these periods can be understood without an understanding of the other.

    From my experience in Scotland, there seems to be something of an obsession amongst history teachers with a few time periods: the two World Wars, the reign of Queen Mary (of Scotland...) and the mediaeval Wars of Independence.

    My own education in history, limited though it was, failed to put these events into any particular context: take the actions of William Wallace and Robert the Bruce - fetishised in Scotland since the Victorian era. Whilst they largely dispelled the myth that these were good men (both were fairly bloodthirsty scoundrels), what they were actually fighting against and why seemed to get lost and instead one just assumed it was a sort of modern nationalism, which couldn't be further from the truth.
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    I'm English, and I want Scotland to be independent/sovereign. I think the UK should break up and England be independent/sovereign too.

    Does the SNP allow English people to join it?
    So, the only reason you'd join is so you can 'help' make Scotland independent? Oh, and if you want England to be completely independent itself then you'll also have to join Plaid Cymru and Sinn Féin (or whatever appropriate) afterwards. :p: That's quite a bit of effort.

    But yup, English people can join - here's one example of an English SNP member: Michael Russell (Currently Cabinet Secretary for Education) who was born in Kent. I have to say, in my eyes English politicians are terrible at coming up with decent education policies.
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    Well there's the English Democrats who are sort of the English counterpart to the SNP and Plaid, though I'm not sure how they feel about actual English independence - one of their core issues I think is getting a devolved parliament for England. No idea where they fall on the political spectrum though.

    I'm not sure how I feel about independence as a Plaid supporter, but I definitely want a fully devolved parliament for Wales, and I'd support full federalisation of the UK as well.
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    (Original post by Curzon)

    I'm not sure how I feel about independence as a Plaid supporter, but I definitely want a fully devolved parliament for Wales, and I'd support full federalisation of the UK as well.
    The living standards in Wales would drop sharply if it were to go independent.
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    (Original post by Teveth)
    The living standards in Wales would drop sharply if it were to go independent.
    It would be very tough for Wales at first if it were to become independent, indeed. We have basically no industry or private sector (thanks to being part of the UK for that though). However, we would go straight into the EU as a full member so we would receive help from the EU.

    But as I said, I don't know where I sit with independence. I would prefer a system where the UK is fully federalised and Wales has de facto self governance.
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    (Original post by Curzon)
    It would be very tough for Wales at first if it were to become independent, indeed. We have basically no industry or private sector (thanks to being part of the UK for that though). However, we would go straight into the EU as a full member so we would receive help from the EU.

    But as I said, I don't know where I sit with independence. I would prefer a system where the UK is fully federalised and Wales has de facto self governance.
    Why?

    What reasons do you have? Once Wales has de facto self governance, why stop there? Why not let Anglesey govern itself independently? And in England, should Cornwall then be allowed to break away?
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I don't think one need make an argument for the existence of a country. Indeed, if they did, then why focus on the British union? Why not the union of four kingdoms that brought Scotland into existence, or the seven that brought England into existence?



    You might as well say that it is due to white people that the UK is still a major world country, since they form the overwhelming majority of the population. That, however, is arbitrary nonsense and ignores the individual contributions of millions of people.

    It seems there are plenty of people in England who have a vision of Scotland as an economic basket-case: an odd combination of backward farming communities and welfare-dependent council estates. It simply isn't accurate. Indeed, in plenty of years recently Scotland has been economically outperforming England.

    Still, the myth persists amongst English nationalist types - which is, I imagine, rather because they want to believe that instead of gaining a true reflection of what Scotland is like.
    where does most of the UK's GDP (making it a G20 country) come from?

    Your username implies that you are not ethnically English, so what gives you the right to disrupt the political union between the indigenous peoples of Briton. If you are not ethnically English, then it is none of your concern or business. You should not have a say.
    Culture and nationality aren't the same thing, and never have been. Most countries in the world have always been multi-cultural.
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    (Original post by ENNGUF)
    But yup, English people can join - here's one example of an English SNP member: Michael Russell (Currently Cabinet Secretary for Education) who was born in Kent. I have to say, in my eyes English politicians are terrible at coming up with decent education policies.
    Mike Russell has never, to my knowledge, identified as being English - and being born in a stable certainly does not make you a horse. Indeed, when he mentions it, he's often quick to point out that he had Scottish parents and moved back before the evil Anglic culture could take root in him. He is Scottish.
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    where does most of the UK's GDP (making it a G20 country) come from?
    I don't know. White people? Is that the point your were making, or were you just spectacularly missing everything else?
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    F SNP join scottish socialist party
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    Did you hear about the asian man who wanted to join the BNP?
    Alas, not a set-up for a very bad joke:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8516677.stm

    what. a. joke.
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    (Original post by Teveth)
    Why?

    What reasons do you have? Once Wales has de facto self governance, why stop there? Why not let Anglesey govern itself independently? And in England, should Cornwall then be allowed to break away?
    Wales is a country and the Welsh are an ethnicity. People from Anglesey are Welsh. Wales has a distinct culture and history, not to mention its own language. We only have 40 MPs which means our voice as a nation in parliament is so pathetic that despite full opposition from Welsh MPs the village of Capel Celyn was flooded in the 1960s to provide a reservoir for Liverpool. Also you seem to forget that the people of Wales voted for the devolved government - that seems to indicate that we feel that we are distinct and wish to govern ourselves. What more reason is there? I'm hopeful for the future of devolution, we should have a parliament at least on the level of the Scottish parliament in the near future.

    In the case of Cornwall, in my opinion there is as much basis to call Cornwall a country as there is Wales. So yeah, if the Cornish want self-governance then they should have it.
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    (Original post by Green And Blue)
    Your username implies that you are not ethnically English, so what gives you the right to disrupt the political union between the indigenous peoples of Briton. If you are not ethnically English, then it is none of your concern or business. You should not have a say.

    You are a prick
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I don't know. White people? Is that the point your were making, or were you just spectacularly missing everything else?
    what does it have to do with race?
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    (Original post by Curzon)
    It would be very tough for Wales at first if it were to become independent, indeed. We have basically no industry or private sector (thanks to being part of the UK for that though). However, we would go straight into the EU as a full member so we would receive help from the EU.

    But as I said, I don't know where I sit with independence. I would prefer a system where the UK is fully federalised and Wales has de facto self governance.

    Nope, you would have to reapply.
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    Isn't it pretty much impossible for Scotland to become independant? Considering they're not financially well at the moment, if the recession hadn't happened, I could have seen them gaining independance.
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    (Original post by Azog 150)
    Nope, you would have to reapply.
    The Vienna Convention assures that international treaties (i.e. EU membership) still apply to any new states that are formed from the old one. It's been stated anyway by the EU that Scotland would be given full membership immediately upon separating from the UK, presumably this stance would be the same for any part of the UK.
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    (Original post by Curzon)
    The Vienna Convention assures that international treaties (i.e. EU membership) still apply to any new states that are formed from the old one. It's been stated anyway by the EU that Scotland would be given full membership immediately upon separating from the UK, presumably this stance would be the same for any part of the UK.


    I stand corrected.

    Carry on :p:

    :o:
 
 
 
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